Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
rareposter
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rareposter »

In going on about his 531 forks, i think @jimlews has inadvertently answered some of the OP's original question:

Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Well yes and no - they've largely been ignored by the mainstream bike industry so they've been mostly immune to the fads and fashions and whims of the trade. The fact that the niche has mostly been filled by much smaller manufacturers and individual custom builders means they've stayed largely true to their roots but part of that is because the riders themselves have a very old-fashioned / traditional viewpoint - after all if you've been touring for years on a comfortable 531 steel bike that's carried you trouble free across continents, why would you ever feel the need to buy something newer?

Everything is focussed on comfort and reliability. The mainstream trends of lighter / faster / more aero simply don't apply and the mindset of the touring rider is very different - they want simplicity and reliability so they've never really been interested in buying the latest shiny new must-have or top end kit.

That does also have a downside though because you end up in a bit of a rut of traditionalist thinking and a refusal to consider new things because "we've always done it this way".
Blondie
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Blondie »

If you get a 700C frame with disc brakes you’ll also be able to fit smaller disc brake wheels such as 26”. As long as the clearances are not stupidly narrow.
jimlews
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by jimlews »

Blondie wrote: 23 Jan 2022, 8:54pm If you get a 700C frame with disc brakes you’ll also be able to fit smaller disc brake wheels such as 26”. As long as the clearances are not stupidly narrow.
And decrease the 'trail'
i.e. alter the steering characteristics.
Whether 'short trail' is a good or a bad thing probably depends on personal preference, of course.
Vorpal
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Vorpal »

The discussion about tyre suspension effect, frame materials, etc. has been moved to viewtopic.php?t=149502
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Jamesh
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Jamesh »

jimlews wrote: 24 Jan 2022, 8:15am
Blondie wrote: 23 Jan 2022, 8:54pm If you get a 700C frame with disc brakes you’ll also be able to fit smaller disc brake wheels such as 26”. As long as the clearances are not stupidly narrow.
And decrease the 'trail'
i.e. alter the steering characteristics.
Whether 'short trail' is a good or a bad thing probably depends on personal preference, of course.
Will it???

Can 531colin advise?
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CJ
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by CJ »

rareposter wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 5:31pmEverything is focussed on comfort and reliability. The mainstream trends of lighter / faster / more aero simply don't apply and the mindset of the touring rider is very different - they want simplicity and reliability so they've never really been interested in buying the latest shiny new must-have or top end kit.
Fair comment. Although most tourists still don't want their bike any heavier than it needs to be, that's because we want the cycling to be easier rather than faster. And its important to realise that those two qualities do NOT necessarily amount to the same thing. You are right that aerodynamics don't matter so much to a tourist, but rolling drag actually matters more, because at slower speeds and lower levels of effort, rolling drag becomes the main consumer of what little energy one wishes to expend. Except uphill, that's where everyone wants a lighter bike!
rareposter wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 5:31pmThat does also have a downside though because you end up in a bit of a rut of traditionalist thinking and a refusal to consider new things because "we've always done it this way".
Unfair comment. You find traditionalist thinking in all the cycling tribes. There's no shortage of equally 'dyed-in-the-wool' old roadies, who cling to their steel frames with horizontal top tubes, their 23mm tyres, who still think the sun shines out of Tullio Campagnolo's bottom-bracket... Then there's the fixed-wheel fanatics, the MTB single-speeders and even the one-by fad has its roots in an old-fashioned craving for a simpler past.

On those (rare) occasions when cycle design develops in a genuinely more useful direction, tourists are as quick as any to embrace the new. One example: the threadless headset. Who was not glad to have a headset no longer prone to loosen (unless tightened within a Nm of stripping its thread!), and that could be adjusted at the roadside with a titchy multi-tool rather than two huge spanners? Another is the Rohloff hub-gear, developed for MTBers, who mostly ignored it and stuck to their traditional derailleurs, whilst tourists adopted them quickly and in quantity.

If we don't go a bundle on many modern developments, it's simply because most of them aren't actually better for our purpose.
Chris Juden
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hoogerbooger
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by hoogerbooger »

(Aheadset: largely agree with CJ RE: touring benefit....although once stem/ bars off to go in a bike bag, loose forks can leave headset bearings more vulnerable in transit.....)

Being old school and a bit 'square tapered' I was pleasantly surprised with the ease of removing and replacing a 2 piece SRAM chainset with only an 8 mm Allen key. ( easy to find/ borrow on tour)...... although my 6mm quick release on my square taper cranks have served fine.
old fangled
brumster
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by brumster »

How long before Shimano electrify and Di2 all their mid to high end transmission parts? The traditional touring bike may eventually become harder to spec with a suitable mechanical groupset that can be repaired at the side of the road..
rmurphy195
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rmurphy195 »

No, they aren't, and like any bike they can be designed and built with up-to-date bits.

Take mine for instance - it looks retro at first glance (mainly due to the paint job), is steel, has braze-ons for the rear rack (for the panniers), mudguards etc. Plenty of heel clearance, and cable-operated disc brakes that are at least as good as any cable-operated rim brakes I have ever used.

And the frame is steel. The gears are low and its fitted with the "old-tech" square-taper cranks - no trendy stuff here. Even a Brooks B17 saddle and you can't get much more "old-fashioned" than that!

Tyres are folding and fairly light, and roll well enough.

I don't tour, I use it for leisure and day rides and general shopping and pootling around on to keep reasonably fit.

Does the job thanks.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !
jimlews
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by jimlews »

Touring cycles may be perceived as being old fashioned, but many of the innovations that define that modern bicycle were developed specifically for and by the cyclo-tourist. The following (by no means comprehensive) list may surprise some:
Double Chainwheels
Triple Chainwheels
Quadruple Chainwheels
The Freewheel
Shaft Drive
Multiple Sprockets (respectively 2,3,4,5,6,7 speeds etc)
Cantilever Brakes
Roller Cam Brakes
Hub Brakes
Front Low -Rider Racks
Rear Low -Rider Racks
Integrated (ie brazed on) rear racks
Mountain Bikes
Anti Chain Suck Devices
Dynamo Lighting
Battery Lighting
Epicyclic gearing
Hybrid gearing
The Rear Derailleur
The Front Derailleur
Index Gear selection
...and there are many more.

Most of these had been experimented with by Tourists and 'Rough Stuff' riders before the first world war.
Meanwhile the so called 'progressive' racing fraternity were still fretting about chain-line and debating whether the sky would fall in
if they adopted the freewheel.

So to balance the equation, here is a list of innovations spawned by the racing fraternity:
The Quick release axle
err... um..
Greystoke
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Greystoke »

Great thread :D
I'm in the old school camp but I will say this, if a bike is rugged enough to commute everyday it'll survive cycle touring.
tatanab
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by tatanab »

CJ wrote: 24 Jan 2022, 1:17pmThere's no shortage of equally 'dyed-in-the-wool' old roadies, who cling to their steel frames with horizontal top tubes, their 23mm tyres, who still think the sun shines out of Tullio Campagnolo's bottom-bracket..
Oh the horror! Not only dripping in Campag but a horizontal top tube as well!
tour1.jpg
The only Shimano parts on this bike were RX100 brake callipers, my nutted Campag sidepulls were retired to other duties. This picture was with a CTC group in southern France about 2002. All other riders used Shimano and were less than polite about my choices even though i had the same gear range as them and click click indexing. Tunnel vision. I still prefer Campag (its an age thing) but mix with Shimano where those parts are more appropriate.
One example: the threadless headset. Who was not glad to have a headset no longer prone to loosen
Back in the 1960s/70s we had Stronglight P3 or V4 on which the adjustable cup and washer above had interlocking teeth. No way that was going to loosen.
hoogerbooger
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Location: In Wales

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by hoogerbooger »

Yes we should all just be more polite. If it does the job reliably .....then it's good for touring.

Flat top bars will be back in due course when the bike manufacturers have reached peak slopey top tube and need a new angle to sell more bikes. For now we flat top tubers will just have put up with being ahead of time........ or retro.......either of which I can convince myself is cool ( or whatever a young person's word for that is). What is not cool is buying a new bike just because of fashion, when the ones you have do the job fine......may be better than buying a flash car, but still not sustainable.
old fangled
Greystoke
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Greystoke »

Err I too have a touring bike with horizontal top tube and dripping in campag....and I like it very much
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kylecycler
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by kylecycler »

hoogerbooger wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 11:44am ...we flat top tubers...
There are all sorts of categories and pigeonholes in cycling but that's a new one on me! :lol: Or, well, it isn't, is it? I guess that's the point! Actually, shades of John Cooper Clarke, the punk poet - 'flat top tuber' is the very kind of line he'd use! :D
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