Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Post Reply
GideonReade
Posts: 410
Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by GideonReade »

I've never toured on a bike with a detachable derailleur hanger, but come to think of it we flew our Dahons somewhere once, and one got bent. So fair point. But this new, and not standardized axle does replace a standardized part, so it makes a problem where there wasn't one. Hopefully it will end up with a standard, or at least, not an excess of difference.

I fear though that now MTBs are designed as Park'n'Play toys, that world is less likely to innovate in a long-haul-touring-friendly way?

Can I check one thing there, "stiffer and stronger"? I can entirely see that 12mm ally tube would be stiffer than 9mm steel. Stiffness I guess especially helpful at the fork. Stronger might be more of a challenge, especially if fatigue starts to raise its head, especially likely at the thread? 15mm sounds seriously hefty.

Both the QR axles I described as broken snapped, with very little trace of prior bending AFAIK. So must be a hard kind of steel.

I suppose too strong is possible - better bust an axle than the frame...
rareposter
Posts: 1988
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rareposter »

GideonReade wrote: 28 Jan 2022, 3:37pm Both the QR axles I described as broken snapped, with very little trace of prior bending AFAIK. So must be a hard kind of steel.
QR axles are unsupported in the middle of the hub:

Image

That's a threaded axle but imagine it with a hole in the middle and a QR skewer, it's exactly the same. This means that any twisting forces on it caused by flexy / out-of-alignment forks or frame, poor wheelbuild, heavy loads going through it and so on will gradually weaken the axle in the middle, often without any outward signs of distress. When it snaps, it'll likely feel no worse than very loose bearings as the hub shell and spokes will keep most of it in line.

Thru-axle doesn't have that problem, it does away with all the flex and alignment issues

There's an easy-to-read guide here:
https://wheretheroadforks.com/thru-axle ... -and-cons/
User avatar
CJ
Posts: 3413
Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 9:55pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by CJ »

GideonReade wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 8:11pm(thru axles and far travels)
Does the thru axle take the weight - is it that which bends or breaks?
I think the thru-axle is stressed mainly in shear at the ends and that the hub-axle-tube takes any bending there may be in (some non-Shimano) designs that fail to position the main hub bearings near the ends.
GideonReade wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 8:11pmIt is thicker, than a olde QR axle, isn't it, but ally? Are there different diameters, are there settled standards yet (how many standards make not-standard?).
For our purposes (touring roads and decent tracks, because anything worse detracts from enjoyment of the scenery) it's mostly settled on 100×12 front 142×12 rear.

For Helen's new Ti tourer I chose the Shimano E-Thru design and think that looks likely to avoid the problems experienced with some other thru-axles. I don't care much for the axles that came with my Mystique carbon 'Mysteron'. The external cam quick-releases are hard to use when the sliding surfaces inevitably get gritty and their adjusting nuts fall out of the frame (until I tapped an M3 hole in the alloy dropout and added a countersunk screw to retain them).
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
hoogerbooger
Posts: 673
Joined: 14 Jun 2009, 11:27am
Location: In Wales

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by hoogerbooger »

I had a couple of broken qr axles pre-1989. Have used shimano deore/lx/Tiagra since then. Minded of the difficulty that the previous failures caused, my spares on longer/heavier tours have included spare axles. Despite some very heavy loads and bumpy routes they've never been needed ! Perhaps I'll pop the 30 yr old deore's spares in the coffin in case the ferry man can use them.
old fangled
m-gineering
Posts: 254
Joined: 23 May 2015, 12:01pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by m-gineering »

GideonReade wrote: 28 Jan 2022, 1:39pmWhereas I met a chap on tour once, had snapped his rear axle, this was a QR but XT, which seemed to be different bearing sizes,

XT was 'improved' with an aluminium axle and tiny bearings (FH-m780) and those versions still -unjustly- capitalize on the reputation of the prior versions,
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm
m-gineering
Posts: 254
Joined: 23 May 2015, 12:01pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by m-gineering »

CJ wrote: 28 Jan 2022, 6:27pm and their adjusting nuts fall out of the frame (until I tapped an M3 hole in the alloy dropout and added a countersunk screw to retain them).
Indeed, check that your fork doesn't have this feature, before you fix a puncture on the trail and catch the last glimpse of this vital part bouncing down the hill side. Some manufactures are a joke.
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm
rareposter
Posts: 1988
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rareposter »

BikeBuddha wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 12:11am Now, I am relooking at disc brakes. I am questioning my proposed purchase. After all, why spend so much money on something that has such ancient technology and rim brakes? Surely his suggestion of taking spare rotors, and pads, would be best? Surely, i could have other spares weighting to be shipped from a home base?

The world is noise... opinions. The world seems hard to fathom.
Are you any closer to fathoming out the world BikeBuddha?
Or if not the world, how is the bike decision coming along?
tmac100
Posts: 58
Joined: 13 May 2016, 1:47pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by tmac100 »

Fifteen years ago I had a custom frame built for a touring bike. It was "expedition grade" everywhere and made of steel. The hubs are PW 48(I think) holes F and R. Wheels are 26" on dynolite rims. Bar end shifters. Rim brakes - old style. Simple to fix. Wheels basically indestructable = Australia's "The Savannah Way" proved that. Brooks B17 saddle.

I bicycled in outback Australia several times on tours of over 2700 km. All good stuff. My bicycle has stood up to it all. Yes to steel, 26" wheels, 40+ spoked hubs AND bar-end shifters. A bugger to be stuck on the Cape York route with 2 broken "brifters" that are stuck in one position - saw it and the fellow (Andrew from Tasmania) replaced them with bar-ends in Cairns.
GideonReade
Posts: 410
Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by GideonReade »

"... stuck on the Cape York route with 2 broken "brifters" that are stuck in one position"

Surely with 2 levers (or 3), and 3 pivots, that's per side... They can't get stuck in one position :D

And they can be not at all stuck, but with the latch gummed up, then you can change gear... But have to hold it in place. Concentration test!

I've always found that copious soaks and sprays of solvent, lots of soaking (a week?), soaking in engine oil (a week?), draining (days) always gets them going again. Of course you might need to set up camp for quite a while.

What's not to like?
djb
Posts: 435
Joined: 24 Mar 2013, 9:27pm
Location: Canada eh

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by djb »

That's exactly why I went with Gevenalle shifters.

So yup, old fashioned I guess, but still fun to use.
hoogerbooger
Posts: 673
Joined: 14 Jun 2009, 11:27am
Location: In Wales

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by hoogerbooger »

The SRAM gear paddle can break off leaving you in one gear or ring. Ask my missus RE her Apex set. They seem relatively simple to maintain.....but can't have any confidence in them now that we know what can happen, just due to the frailty of design. Just for day riding.

I'll stick with my deore xt thumb shifters on my 26" flat bar touring bike and am happy with my nice and simple down tube shifters on my 700c drops steel tourer with friction on the chainrings and friction option on the RHS.
old fangled
tmac100
Posts: 58
Joined: 13 May 2016, 1:47pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by tmac100 »

GideonReade wrote: 5 Feb 2022, 8:33pm "... stuck on the Cape York route with 2 broken "brifters" that are stuck in one position"

Surely with 2 levers (or 3), and 3 pivots, that's per side... They can't get stuck in one position :D

And they can be not at all stuck, but with the latch gummed up, then you can change gear... But have to hold it in place. Concentration test!

I've always found that copious soaks and sprays of solvent, lots of soaking (a week?), soaking in engine oil (a week?), draining (days) always gets them going again. Of course you might need to set up camp for quite a while.

What's not to like?
Sand and bull dust stopped Andrew's brifters. Obviously you have never been in outback Australia. Both brifters would NOT shift so he bicycled N to Bamaga and then back S to Cairns in one gear. Bamaga is over 1000 km on a dirt road. No bike shops.

Your suggestion would not work with the bull dust. Jammed, not gummed up.
BikeBuddha
Posts: 52
Joined: 11 Aug 2019, 6:15pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by BikeBuddha »

Hi All

Wow.... that was a lot of information to read.

I shut down the decision. Went away. Hid. And am still hiding.

I met a guy from Namibia. He is British, living there. He came over here, and the one thing he has to do is get spare brake pads, or something or other, for his friend's disk brake bike. Can't get them there. So, a good suggestion for rim brakes.



I have to now make a choice. There is OBW, Thorn, Shand... too many. I like the idea of a Thorn, as the frame can go disc as well as rim, derailleur as well as Rohloff, and chain as well as a belt drive. I am unsure if the belt drive option weakens the frame in some way.

Anyway, contacting them.


There has been some great advice. So, thank you. I think simplicity is the way to go, with rim brakes and a chain, not a belt drive. Still think the Rohloff option sounds best, though. Going for these optional extras... if I can get them fitted.

• Chris King Headset
• Ergon GP5 Grips
• Schwalbe Marathon Mondial Tyres
• SON 28 dynamo hub with Sinewave Revolu-tion USB Charger
• Light and Motion Rechargeable light set VIS Combo (Trooper and Vaya Switch) Light set
• Ortleib Roller Classic Pannier set with Bar bag in Asphalt
• DMR V12 pedals
• Mirrycle Mountain Mirror

I need a bike to let me go, without a home, in case one day i don't have a home. I would like it to charge some kind of camera, that takes RAW images, which I can edit at my leisure wherever I am. And, of course, a rack system that carries what I need. Not sure whether Tubus is better than Thorn's own racks.

Anyway, thanks again.

Bike Buddha.
rareposter
Posts: 1988
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rareposter »

BikeBuddha wrote: 13 Mar 2022, 2:08pm

I met a guy from Namibia. He is British, living there. He came over here, and the one thing he has to do is get spare brake pads, or something or other, for his friend's disk brake bike. Can't get them there. So, a good suggestion for rim brakes
Since disc brake pads are tiny and weigh very little, it's easy to carry half a dozen sets which would last you 2+ years in normal circumstances. Then you have no worries about wearing the rim out and having to buy a new rim and rebuild a Rohloff hub into it!

There are challenges in getting disc brake pads at the best of times, there's dozens and dozens of different types for different brakes - even in the UK I would expect to have to order them in, it's simply not realistic for a bike shop to carry a huge range.

Anyway, good luck with your ongoing decision-making!
simonhill
Posts: 5226
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by simonhill »

BikeBuddha wrote: 13 Mar 2022, 2:08pm Hi All

There has been some great advice. So, thank you. I think simplicity is the way to go,
Amen to that bit.
Post Reply