Daft Derailleur Question!

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peetee
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by peetee »

gxaustin wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 10:17pm
In terms of rear mech compatibility, yes. You may, however struggle to get an 8 speed chain between the cage plates when in the extreme gears on some mechs designed for 11 speed.
An 11 speed mech will have the wrong pull ratio.
Yep, somewhat contradicted my previous post there.
D’oh! :oops:
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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Mick F
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by Mick F »

Both my bikes are 10sp indexed triples.
One with Ergos, and the other with Shimano indexed DT levers.
Both expensive, and work perfectly with friction DT.
Experimented on both bikes to prove it.

Dunno about other folk, but I frequently shift two or three or four cogs at once, and rarely if ever, one at a time. What is indexing for?
Friction is easy, very simple, cheap, reliable, and is unlikely to wear out.
Mick F. Cornwall
gxaustin
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by gxaustin »

Dunno about other folk, but I frequently shift two or three or four cogs at once, and rarely if ever, one at a time. What is indexing for?
Friction is easy, very simple, cheap, reliable, and is unlikely to wear out.
OK you are disdainful of indexing. I think you are probably in a minority but who cares? I find brake lever mounted shifters are much more convenient, especially for 9-10-11 speeds and I hated having to dropdown to use DT shifters. I think our sport/activity is sufficiently diverse to accept both points of view, however. Don't you agree?
A halfway house might be Colin531's handlebar friction levers?
My Shimano 6800 shifters have lasted about 28,000miles without problem. I'm sure they will keep going for many more miles.
The one advantage I can think of with DTs is the longevity of the cables which seemed to last forever. STS cables need replacing about yearly, in my case.
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Mick F
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by Mick F »

Yes, of course I agree.

Been very happy with my 9sp Mirage Ergos and even more happy with my 10sp Chorus Ergos.
Didn't like the 10sp STI Tiagra that came with my Moulton, so sold them and bought the Shimano Dura Ace indexed DT shifters for it instead. Much better with them and the standard brake levers.

I spent much of my cycling life with 5sp and 6sp and then 7sp all with friction DT levers. As I said, I've experimented with the same levers - still have the Campag Victory ones circa 1986 - and they work admirably with the 10sp on either bike.

Cheap, simple, reliable.
Mick F. Cornwall
gxaustin
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by gxaustin »

I spent much of my cycling life with 5sp and 6sp and then 7sp all with friction DT levers.
Me too. I think my antipathy towards DT shifters is because I always found it a big reach down from the bars on my 24" frame. I always used to change both front and back derailers with my right hand too - I preferred to keep the left hand on the bars. Now though, I like being able to keep both hands on the bars as I negotiate the traffic, or change on gradients or bends. The only time I looked at bar end shifters they were very adjacent to my knees.
I do know someone who uses friction shifters on his old Bianchi 2 x 6 speed. He has 53/46 on the front and 14 to 25 on the back. Goodness only knows how he goes so well at 70.
Jamesh
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by Jamesh »

peetee wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:44pm
VinceLedge wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 4:31pm
PH wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 4:23pm Shimano 8 & 9 speed and road 10 speed rear derailleurs all have the same ratio (1.7) so are all interchangeable, possibly 6&7 as well, though I haven't used those. MTB 10 speed gets complicated.
Thanks that is helpful, might use use a 10sp one and it is a useful spare for the other bikes as well.
But not Tiagra 4800.
As I say, check a compatibility chart.
4700
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Mick F
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by Mick F »

gxaustin wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 5:57pm I always found it a big reach down from the bars on my 24" frame.
This a good point.

We are all different.
I'm an "ape" insomuch as my span is longer than my height.
ie I have long arms.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by Jdsk »

gxaustin wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 5:57pmNow though, I like being able to keep both hands on the bars as I negotiate the traffic, or change on gradients or bends.
Doesn't bother me on my own, but on the tandems or with a child seat on the back I'd much rather not have to drop my hands.

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foxyrider
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Re: Daft Derailleur Question!

Post by foxyrider »

Mick F wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 6:49pm
gxaustin wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 5:57pm I always found it a big reach down from the bars on my 24" frame.
This a good point.

We are all different.
I'm an "ape" insomuch as my span is longer than my height.
ie I have long arms.
I've been gifted with Orangutan arms too, its not that i can't reach the levers on my 23/24" frames but i still hate d/t levers for all sorts of reasons. That said i do have 2 bikes with d/t set up, my Eroica with Campag friction and my 'hack' with Exage indexed/friction - the former by neccesity, the latter essentially on price!

Given the choice i'll go for Ergos, 4 bikes currently with 10 or 11 speed in qualities from Veloce to SR - only the SR has matched mech, the rest seem to be happy with whatever i chuck on so i've got a 9sp long cage Record rd running off 11sp Chorus levers with a 10sp Shimano cassette - has done over 10k miles in that set up without issue.

Friction levers have their uses, can be a problem solver and certainly a weight saver but indexing and combined levers have opened up cycling to many people for whom friction change just didn't work. (for whatever reason they could never get the delicate touch needed!)
Convention? what's that then?
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