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Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 2:38pm
by Slowtwitch
In retrospect, I think the main problem I'll face will be the constriction of my social circle, and some people I'm thinking I really won't be able to have a social drink (even non alcoholic) with ever again. One of my best friends, let's call him Pete, can easily drink 15-20 pints in a single session. I don't even bother to try and keep up with him, he drinks roughly three to my one, but in that small social group there is definitely a culture to 'keep up' with the others. He'll do this maybe 5 nights a week.
It IS having a detrimental effect on his health, but at 62 he doesn't seem to care. I think if I stop drinking, he will have to be one of the people I see a lot less of. Before the lock downs I was maybe drinking 25 units a week, but since that has doubled. That's too much for me, and it's definitely having an effect on my sleep patterns and my wallet. I don't really understand the definition of an alcoholic, but I suppose it's something I'll have to research. I've noticed since I upped my alcohol intake I do get regular heartburn when cycling but it normally passes after the first half hour.
I don't like the way my consumption is going, and that's the main reason I want to stop. I can see people around me who previously (before covid) would be moderate drinkers and are now essentially heavy drinkers. I don't want to go down that road. I watched my father kill himself by the numbers with booze, which I thought a terrible waste of a life. So it's a fine balance, between a social life and better health. I'm pro self help, so I know pretty much which choice I'll be making. Interesting to hear others experience.
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 4:46pm
by simonineaston
I've lost several close friends to alcohol misuse and lots of aquaintances too. The drug, its use, its mythology and practices is woven through the fabric of our society so that it can be very hard indeed to limit its impact. Even if individually, we have a reasonably healthy relationship with the stuff, it costs us all dear. On the other hand, loads of us have enjoyed a life-time of great fun, derived directly from alcohol consumption and have managed to get away with it. It can be a thin line...
- harm to users and others
Over my life-time, I've had varying degrees of success in managing my intake and now stick to three cardinal rules:
* never drink alone
* drink only single measures (aka half pints)
* don't drink on any empty stomach.
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 6:10pm
by Pebble
simonineaston wrote: ↑23 Jan 2022, 4:46pm
I've lost several close friends to alcohol misuse and lots of aquaintances too. The drug, its use, its mythology and practices is woven through the fabric of our society so that it can be very hard indeed to limit its impact. Even if individually, we have a reasonably healthy relationship with the stuff, it costs us all dear. On the other hand, loads of us have enjoyed a life-time of great fun, derived directly from alcohol consumption and have managed to get away with it. It can be a thin line... Screenshot 2022-01-23 at 16.39.02.pngOver my life-time, I've had varying degrees of success in managing my intake and now stick to three cardinal rules:
* never drink alone
* drink only single measures (aka half pints)
* don't drink on any empty stomach.
Butane - as in the gas? never knew that could be abused, to think of all the wild camping I have done and never knew!
Apparently (just looked it up) one of the symptoms of 'Huffing Butane' is strange smelling breath, I wonder why... - could be dangerous if they also smoked.
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 6:55pm
by Jdsk
Slowtwitch wrote: ↑23 Jan 2022, 2:38pmI don't really understand the definition of an alcoholic, but I suppose it's something I'll have to research.
There is no consistent definition, it's used to mean a lot of different things, and it doesn't really help.
The best starting place for assessing risk and harm is the NHS self-assessment protocols:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/alcohol-misuse/
and scroll down to
Getting Help.
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 23 Jan 2022, 6:57pm
by Jdsk
Slowtwitch wrote: ↑23 Jan 2022, 2:38pmOne of my best friends, let's call him Pete, can easily drink 15-20 pints in a single session. I don't even bother to try and keep up with him, he drinks roughly three to my one, but in that small social group there is definitely a culture to 'keep up' with the others. He'll do this maybe 5 nights a week.
Raising the subject of harm with him is a notoriously difficult question. With a best friend I would. Better sooner than later.
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 9:57am
by simonineaston
Thinking about the close friends I've lost and how their best chums were able to affect any positive change, the record is one of poor outcomes...
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 10:35am
by Vorpal
Slowtwitch wrote: ↑23 Jan 2022, 2:38pm
In retrospect, I think the main problem I'll face will be the constriction of my social circle, and some people I'm thinking I really won't be able to have a social drink (even non alcoholic) with ever again. One of my best friends, let's call him Pete, can easily drink 15-20 pints in a single session. I don't even bother to try and keep up with him, he drinks roughly three to my one, but in that small social group there is definitely a culture to 'keep up' with the others. He'll do this maybe 5 nights a week.
It IS having a detrimental effect on his health, but at 62 he doesn't seem to care. I think if I stop drinking, he will have to be one of the people I see a lot less of. Before the lock downs I was maybe drinking 25 units a week, but since that has doubled. That's too much for me, and it's definitely having an effect on my sleep patterns and my wallet. I don't really understand the definition of an alcoholic, but I suppose it's something I'll have to research. I've noticed since I upped my alcohol intake I do get regular heartburn when cycling but it normally passes after the first half hour.
I don't like the way my consumption is going, and that's the main reason I want to stop. I can see people around me who previously (before covid) would be moderate drinkers and are now essentially heavy drinkers. I don't want to go down that road. I watched my father kill himself by the numbers with booze, which I thought a terrible waste of a life. So it's a fine balance, between a social life and better health. I'm pro self help, so I know pretty much which choice I'll be making. Interesting to hear others experience.
I don't drink alcohol. I have alcoholics in my family, and saw myself on that precipice in my late teens, and decided then that I was not going to drink. I've tried a few drinks a couple of times since, and while I like the taste of some, it reaffirmed my choice not to; I don't like how it feels, nor the effects in my body.
I do think that a change in social circle & habits is needed, though. I certainly needed to make that change, and I think that most people I know who have succeeded in stopping drinking have changed their social circle. That can be hard to do, especially when they are long-term or close friends. That said, can you arrange to socialise with them in non-drinking situations?
I guess that you know for yourself, but it might help to replace the pub time with another activity. The easiest maybe is to join a club for an interest that you want to develop, pick up a new hobby, or take a class in something, but cycling, walking, arranging meet-ups with other friends, or doing something regularly with family are other alternatives.
The biggest problem for me has been people being nosy about why or pushing me to have a drink at things like Christmas parties & after-hours work events. Mostly, people just accept it when I say I don't drink, but there is a correlation between how much others have to drink & how nosy or pushy they are about me drinking, so I either stick with a friend who's not drinking, or leave when most everyone else has successfully lowered their inhibitions enough to get pushy with me about it.
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 11:56am
by simonineaston
I've tried a few drinks a couple of times since, and while I like the taste of some, it reaffirmed my choice not to; I don't like how it feels, nor the effects in my body.
The simple fact is that alcohol tastes unpleasant and affects the body in many unpleasant ways. The bitter irony is that we work so hard to accomodate it...
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 1:49pm
by al_yrpal
To answer the OP. I have drunk alcohol all my life, at one point fairly heavily but it has never affected my work performance. Married for a second time recently my new wife doesn't drink and now I rarely have more than a glass of wine in an evening. I dont miss alcohol and am very happy to be the driver if we go out to a restaurant with friends.
As I understand it very moderate alcohol consumption, a regular glass of wine or a single pint is supposed to be good for you. Thats where I am and where I will normally stay.
Al
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 3:29pm
by simonineaston
As I understand it very moderate alcohol consumption, a regular glass of wine or a single pint is supposed to be good for you. Thats where I am and where I will normally stay.
Latest view is that there's no safe level of alcohol (if I was listening carefully enough to the radio the other day...) however, that doesn't take into account the psychological effects. How on earth does one quantify countless positive and uplifting social interactions, wheels well & truly oiled - or conversely, countless hours of savage aggression, both verbal and physical, hard on the heels of consumption?
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 3:41pm
by thirdcrank
Re the definition of alcoholic, I took it to be about a form of addiction, which meant that total abstinence was the only certain way out ie no cure, so one drink might mean a total relapse. I get that from the people who have been through this and recount their experience.
I don't think it's synonymous with habitually drinking so much that it causes permanent physical harm, although both may often occur together.
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 3:43pm
by Jdsk
simonineaston wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 3:29pm
As I understand it very moderate alcohol consumption, a regular glass of wine or a single pint is supposed to be good for you. Thats where I am and where I will normally stay.
Latest view is that there's no safe level of alcohol (if I was listening carefully enough to the radio the other day...) however, that doesn't take into account the psychological effects. How on earth does one quantify countless positive and uplifting social interactions, wheels well & truly oiled - or conversely, countless hours of savage aggression, both verbal and physical, hard on the heels of consumption?
It has recently got more difficult to know.
Putting to one side the social benefits and harms, which you have described above and upthread, and the benefits
are sometimes underestimated...
... on a tighter definition of health it's been observed for a long time that there's a J-shaped curve between mortality and consumption. But it hasn't been clear whether that's a genuine effect for an individual or an artefact at the population level. For brain damage and certain cancers the risk seems to increase continuously from zero consumption.
Jonathan
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 3:46pm
by Jdsk
thirdcrank wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 3:41pm
Re the definition of alcoholic, I took it to be about a form of addiction, which meant that total abstinence was the only certain way out ie no cure, so one drink might mean a total relapse. I get that from the people who have been through this and recount their experience.
I don't think it's synonymous with habitually drinking so much that it causes permanent physical harm, although both may often occur together.
There just isn't a consistent definition. It's possible to base it on consumption, questionnaires and scoring systems, biomarkers and other predictors of harm, detectable harm (and there are many different types of harm), social decompensation...
Jonathan
On the definition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism#Definition
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 4:17pm
by thirdcrank
I can only say I'm pretty sure I haven't any alcohol dependence at all. My only drinking is social - widely defined - and as I'm unsociable - a Billy-no-mates - there have been times when I've gone ages without touching the stuff. I also don't lose the self-control where one drink risks leading to more. I'm not claiming never to have been drunk, but the last time - which I can remember clearly because it was such an isolated incident - was about 25 years ago. Before that, I drank some copious amounts as a student and occasionally, in the first couple of years of work. OTOH, I can see that the cumulative effect of even small amounts of alcohol over a lifetime might be detrimental. In my own case, it can't be beneficial to diabetes. My basic philosophy there is that I might as well die soon and happy after a fashion, or live longer and die utterly miserable.
Now, were I to be diagnosed with eg pancreatic cancer, I could see it would be alcohol-related, but not caused by alcohol addiction.
Re: Alcohol and Alcoholism
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 4:31pm
by irc
simonineaston wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 3:29pmLatest view is that there's no safe level of alcohol (if I was listening carefully enough to the radio the other day...)
No. That is a lie pushed by anti alcohol campaigners.
"mortality risk is lower for light drinkers than for teetotallers but it then rises. According to this graph, drinkers’ mortality risk rises to that of a teetotaller at 17.6 units per week for women and 21.2 units per week for men. On this analysis, a guideline of 21 units for men was appropriate and a guideline of 14 units for women was slightly over-cautious."
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co ... s-are.html
No question that heavy drinking is bad. I've lost feiends and relatives to it. They were far past what I would class as moderate drinking though and all had other problems in their lives.