Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by Pete Owens »

I think it is more likely that trucks will be first. Their destinations will be much more precicely defined - and defined be the trucks owner. For a minicab you are relying on a random member of the public to be able to tell it exactly where they want to be taken to. Also truck drivers are more expensive, and have to fit in compulsory breaks and limited driving time per day.
GideonReade
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Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by GideonReade »

From my (our) point of view, that has the advantage that the trials should then be in Australia. As it lowers the bar for success considerably, since Australia seems to have an - acknowledged - problem with homicidal truck drivers.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by thirdcrank »

I'd agree about trucks being the first self-driving vehicles in any real-word use. I could easily imagine this being the long-distance overnight distribution between hubs and delivery centres, which are increasingly sited near motorway junctions. Unlike cars, which at least in the early stages will involve convincing the early adaptors that these are a status symbol, there's a chronic shortage of HGV drivers, so this would mitigate that.
fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by fastpedaller »

Pete Owens wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 4:22pm I think it is more likely that trucks will be first. Their destinations will be much more precicely defined - and defined be the trucks owner. For a minicab you are relying on a random member of the public to be able to tell it exactly where they want to be taken to. Also truck drivers are more expensive, and have to fit in compulsory breaks and limited driving time per day.
The trucks won't be stopping as often, so less likelihood of illegal immigrants being able to disembark? Is the truck owner or manufacturer responsible if immigrants gain entry? (serious question)
pete75
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Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by pete75 »

Four people in a completely self driving car. Which one to prosecute if users don't have immunity from an offence the vehicle commits or do they all turn up in the dock.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Jdsk
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Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by Jdsk »

pete75 wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 9:49am Four people in a completely self driving car. Which one to prosecute if users don't have immunity from an offence the vehicle commits or do they all turn up in the dock.
See the Law Commission report:
viewtopic.php?p=1668453#p1668453

Jonathan
pete75
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Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by pete75 »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 9:52am
pete75 wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 9:49am Four people in a completely self driving car. Which one to prosecute if users don't have immunity from an offence the vehicle commits or do they all turn up in the dock.
See the Law Commission report:
viewtopic.php?p=1668453#p1668453

Jonathan
If those policies are adopted users will have immunity. I meant what will happen if they're not . They mention a person in the driving seat but completely automated cars may well not have a driving seat or any controls passengers can use.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by Pete Owens »

pete75 wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 9:49am Four people in a completely self driving car. Which one to prosecute if users don't have immunity from an offence the vehicle commits or do they all turn up in the dock.
Exactly the same as if those four people caught a bus - they are passengers not drivers.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by Jdsk »

pete75 wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 10:01am
Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 9:52am
pete75 wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 9:49am Four people in a completely self driving car. Which one to prosecute if users don't have immunity from an offence the vehicle commits or do they all turn up in the dock.
See the Law Commission report:
viewtopic.php?p=1668453#p1668453
If those policies are adopted users will have immunity. I meant what will happen if they're not . They mention a person in the driving seat but completely automated cars may well not have a driving seat or any controls passengers can use.
They use the SAE levels. Their proposals on responsibility follow from those levels.
Pete Owens wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 10:26am Exactly the same as if those four people caught a bus - they are passengers not drivers.
It depends on the level of automation. Yes, at some levels none of them would be responsible.

Jonathan
axel_knutt
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by axel_knutt »

It'll get interesting when the hackers find a way in, both the malicious third parties trying to cause trouble, and the "performance tweaking" owners .
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by thirdcrank »

And the tyre deflators
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Stevek76 wrote: 26 Jan 2022, 9:59am This seems reasonable to me (the actual details, not the sensationalist headlines).

The recommendations are generally very good, a clear hard distinction between driver assists and fully automated driving with only genuinely indecently operating vehicles qualifying as the latter, for everything else the driver remains responsible as if it were any old car.

This one as well:
The Law Commissions recommend new safeguards to stop driver assistance features from being marketed as self-driving. This would help to minimise the risk of collisions caused by members of the public thinking that they do not need to pay attention to the road while a driver assistance feature is in operation.
That one mostly aimed at Tesla I think.
That is the way it has to be, really. Once fully independent vehicles are on the roads – which might be a long time yet – there will be no driver to be responsible. It would be as sensible as making bus passengers liable.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by Jdsk »

"Rules on the safe use of automated vehicles: summary of responses and government response":
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ehicles-av

Jonathan
hemo
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Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by hemo »

It beggars belief of this mornings news, that users can watch telly whilst driving but be ready to take back control. One just can't see that anyone doing so will be in any state of alertness to resume instant control, equally as bad as being distracted by a phone which will remain illegal. Even at low speeds this has to be highly dangerous.
djnotts
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Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

Post by djnotts »

So I didn't mishear. And this while paying lip service to increasing safety for pedestrians and cyclists.
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