Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Jdsk
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Jdsk »

Carlton green wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 10:29pmPlus the British Medical Journal reports on resting heart rate and fitness here: https://heart.bmj.com/content/99/12/882#T2
That's about resting heart rate and fitness. Interesting and important and well-known. But not particularly related to a device showing a spike. Or to the need (for most people) for target values for heart rate when exercising or specific values for "beneficial, healthy and safe ranges".

Jonathan
Slowtwitch
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Slowtwitch »

Just a "ghost in the machine", to quote the Police, after their Synchronicity album! I get this a lot with my Garmln when passing high tension wires or mobile mast. I didn't notice it for ages, till the penny finally dropped. I have a smartwatch (Huawei, top of the range) which is susceptible to the same.

A friend of mine, a digital sceptic, has coined a phrase for all such devices: BTB's: battery powered baubles :lol:
Carlton green
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Carlton green »

Carlton green wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 10:29pm
Ah, you have your own set of data and explanations but how do you back it up with supporting academic data? How can you be sure of your safety?

I’m quite surprised that nobody has come up with any other authoritative data, surely if you go to the trouble of monitoring your heart you need criteria against which to evaluate the results?

For what it’s worth I’ve got a resting heart rate of 60 bpm, I’d like it to be a bit lower but apparently that’s already at the low end of the normal range - I believe that that means I’m reasonably fit if still a little room for improvement. The BHF web site does mention Bradycardia and who might have it.

The American Heart Association give further supporting data in heart rates: https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living ... eart-rates . Again they’re a reputable source of information.
Plus US Government data here: https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/ba ... rtrate.htm
Plus the British Medical Journal reports on resting heart rate and fitness here: https://heart.bmj.com/content/99/12/882#T2
I think it good practice to (only) quote people in context, and I remain quite surprised - well shocked actually - that nobody (here) has come up with any other authoritative data, surely if you go to the trouble of monitoring your heart you need criteria against which to evaluate the results?
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Jdsk »

Carlton green wrote: 28 Jan 2022, 1:48pm
Carlton green wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 10:29pm
Ah, you have your own set of data and explanations but how do you back it up with supporting academic data? How can you be sure of your safety?

I’m quite surprised that nobody has come up with any other authoritative data, surely if you go to the trouble of monitoring your heart you need criteria against which to evaluate the results?

For what it’s worth I’ve got a resting heart rate of 60 bpm, I’d like it to be a bit lower but apparently that’s already at the low end of the normal range - I believe that that means I’m reasonably fit if still a little room for improvement. The BHF web site does mention Bradycardia and who might have it.

The American Heart Association give further supporting data in heart rates: https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living ... eart-rates . Again they’re a reputable source of information.
Plus US Government data here: https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/ba ... rtrate.htm
Plus the British Medical Journal reports on resting heart rate and fitness here: https://heart.bmj.com/content/99/12/882#T2
I think it good practice to (only) quote people in context, and I remain quite surprised - well shocked actually - that nobody (here) has come up with any other authoritative data, surely if you go to the trouble of monitoring your heart you need criteria against which to evaluate the results?
I imagine that most people are comparing changes within themselves over time. That's a useful measure of cardiovascular fitness. And it doesn't need any external reference criteria.

But it was you that introduced the idea of target values for "beneficial, healthy and safe ranges" in exercise.

Jonathan
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
30 years ago I was climbing Haytor and on getting there I stopped to count at about 200.
Last week (63) I saw 45 resting.

But this does not mean much.
If you are training / want to get fitter / maintain fitness.
Then I suggest working on heart rate zones, this is of course based on %'s of your max...there about.
I normally work on average over 3 hrs to be 80% of my ,max obtainable plus some, not the max I can get on a ride etc.

You are going to have to estimate this based on some peaks you have hit, then add some percent, say 3-5%.
Or go test with some sadistic mates whilst you climb aboard a turbo.

Recommended rates are meaningless, concentrate on percent of your max and look at zones.
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bikes4two
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by bikes4two »

My six-penny worth:
  • Aging is an inevitable process - there comes a point when your heart will not put up with the exercise levels you've been comfortable with in earlier years
  • Working out when you reach the point where hard exercise crosses the line and is detrimental, is a difficult one and will be different for everyone
  • So if like the OP you see unexpected jumps/spikes in your HR, yes, of course it may be the electronics playing up but if it happens more than once, IMHO you'd be daft to ignore it.
  • Only last week the 'spike in HR' happened to a cycling friend and whilst he felt fine, being in his 70's he went to his GP and discovered he had atrial fibrillation
  • I have had 3 episodes of persistant AF in the last couple of years and have totalled 8 months of that sitting mainly on a sofa (the effects of AF on people varies enormously)
  • Now that I know how AF feels, I reckon I'd been having brief episodes a good couple of years before but seeing as my cycling didn't seem unduly affected, I ignored the ocassional spikes in HR
  • I really can't say if ignoring it has had lasting effects but I can tell you that the 3 episodes were really nasty and although I'm back in sinus rythym and have been for 3 months, my cycling fitness is no where near the same
  • I highly recommend a device called a Kardia Mobile which in conjunction with a smart phone will show you your HR and ECG waveform and tell you if AF is suspected. As much as anything else, I find it useful to see if when I'm not feeling my best, has AF returned or not.
  • So I'd say ignore HR spikes at your peril
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RickH
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by RickH »

David2504 wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 8:29pm
Carlton green wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 4:05pm I had thought that the maximum heart rate during exercise was 220 less your age, so 160 a maximum of bpm for a sixty year old.

The British heart foundation have some guidelines and a heart rate calculator here: https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... heart-rate

“Your target heart rate (THR) is between 50% and 70% of your maximum heart rate. You should aim to exercise with your heart rate between these two figures. Your target heart rate will make sure you increase your fitness and strength safely.”

For a 60 year old those (BHF) exercise rates would be 80 - 112 bpm.

There’s some interesting data here too, if from a well known but reputable commercial organisation : https://www.polar.com/blog/running-hear ... es-basics/
These are general guidelines based on a sedentary lifestyle. I am aged over 60, and I know I can maintain a HR above 160BPM for a good while, though I wouldn’t be talking to you, and a rate above 170BPM for a few minutes only, for example when cycling up a steep hill. I can do that because the heart is a muscle and like all muscles it is strengthened through stress caused by exercise, and I have exercised most of my adult life, long distance running and cycling.

What’s more my resting HR is 47BPM. The NHS would describe that as Bradycardia, and did, when I had a short stay in hospital a few years ago. Indeed at first, until I explained my circumstances they were worried about it.
That sounds similar to me. Age 63 when I'm riding at my own pace I generally have an average HR in the 140s (using a Garmin HR strap) & a resting HR of 47 according to Garmin Connect. Yesterday I was on my way home from Chester with my bike. On a whim I decided to not sit around for 35 minutes waiting for a connection to Wigan, followed by an 8.5 mile ride & I was feeling in good form so I rode the whole way home - 20 miles & pushed it a bit more than usual. Consequently my Average heart rate was 156, significant spells were over 160 & I peaked at 173 surfing the start of the evening rush hour traffic up the A49 past the M62 junction (before turning off at Winnick onto slightly quieter roads for those familiar with the area). I managed to keep my average speed over 15mph until the final half mile (which has about 250ft ascent!).
Elevation & HR 20 mile ride home (click to enlarge)
Elevation & HR 20 mile ride home (click to enlarge)
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Blondie
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Blondie »

Were you wearing a synthetic top causing some static? In the past I’ve seen duff values when wearing particular synthetic tops and I haven’t wetted the electrodes well enough. There are certain tops I don’t wear anymore, as it was only wearing those tops I saw duff values, and now stick with merino. No more duff values.
David2504
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by David2504 »

That sounds similar to me. Age 63 when I'm riding at my own pace I generally have an average HR in the 140s (using a Garmin HR strap) & a resting HR of 47 according to Garmin Connect. Yesterday I was on my way home from Chester with my bike. On a whim I decided to not sit around for 35 minutes waiting for a connection to Wigan, followed by an 8.5 mile ride & I was feeling in good form so I rode the whole way home - 20 miles & pushed it a bit more than usual. Consequently my Average heart rate was 156, significant spells were over 160 & I peaked at 173 surfing the start of the evening rush hour traffic up the A49 past the M62 junction (before turning off at Winnick onto slightly quieter roads for those familiar with the area). I managed to keep my average speed over 15mph until the final half mile (which has about 250ft ascent!).

RIde home - elevation & HR.png

Good to hear I’m not on my own!
alexp78
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by alexp78 »

Hi all,

Is it an old or new Polar you are using?

I've had similar high spikes with an old Polar FT1 HRM when cycling outdoors over the last couple of years. The problem does not corelate with reaching the top of a hill, and has occurred even just freewheeling downhill. I also use a cross trainer indoors with the same setup but have never had this problem, despite heart rate of up to 150. So for outdoors I used Sonogel electrode gel and shaved hair to ensure a good contact. This stops the area drying up, especially in warm blowy weather, but the problem continued. So, suspecting faulty electronics aggrevated by outdoor conditions (vibration, orientation of watch to strap, heat...), how to test?

I've tried changing the watch battery and checking all internal contacts. I've also replaced the battery in the Polar T31 chest strap- this is not easy as it is sealed and you have to heat and cut the back off, but there are youtube videos to guide. You can buy "new" T31 straps but beware they haven't been made for 10 years so the internal battery might be expired. The problem continued.

The Polar strap transmits on 5kHz, now regarded as old school. Most modern stuff uses Bluetooth (for mobiles) and/or ANT+ (I believe for newer gym machines).

All I need is a self-contained HRM reader, so I recently got one of these for about £40: Beurer PM25 Heart Rate Monitor Watch:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000I6FN5I

The kit is similar to the Polar, and it comes with a bulletproof strap also using 5kHz. Either strap will work with both watches.

You can only wear ONE of the straps but you can carry both watches on your wrist or arm and compare. Note that the Beurer might be tolerant to slightly irregular heart beat, so it might not register a real medical problem and the whole exercise might in the end not prove anything.

I'm only at the start of testing the devices. Two rides so far with the Beurer strap, no dropouts. I'll re-post when I have more results.
Nearholmer
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Nearholmer »

Did you feel even the slightest sensation of “butterflies” simultaneous with the spike?

And, has it happened before/since?

If so, worth getting checked out.

I had the same affect, spike when backing-off at the top of tough hills, sometimes accompanied by a tiny bit of butterflies, so the specialist rigged me with a recording ECG and off I went for a ride. The results showed very minor, short duration mis-firing as I backed-off from full effort.

That then led on to a very thorough look at heart function, all good, and after much hemming and hawing being told that it didn’t look threatening, so basically not to worry too much about it, but also to manage more carefully the amount of time I spend at >90% HR, because prolonged thrashing away at >90% HR is not good for overall heart health.

There was no suggestion from any of the medics involved that I was acting like a hypochondriac, and I was told ‘if you feel butterflies seek advice’. Fortunately, one of the medics was a keen cyclist himself, so I felt that I got good advice from someone who understood both perspectives, cardiology and cycling!

All this did lead me to drop the size of front ring on the bike I use most, which has 1 x 11 gearing, which has slowed me down a tiny bit, but been beneficial overall.

For reference, I’m just short of 63yo.
axel_knutt
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by axel_knutt »

alexp78 wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 2:31pmI've had similar high spikes with an old Polar FT1 HRM
My arrhythmia started with me assuming I had a faulty HRM, that continued for about three years before I ended up on an ambulance for the first time.
Nearholmer wrote: 30 Mar 2022, 3:32pmworth getting checked out.
I had Bruce tests, Holters & ECGs, some after my arrhythmia had already been diagnosed. They were all negative.

See my post upthread.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Nearholmer
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by Nearholmer »

Interesting/sobering.

I drew comfort from the fact that the ECG recorded the issue occurring in exactly the circumstances where I’d noticed it myself in the first place … it didn’t give me a “clean bill”, and neither did it detect a load of things that I hadn’t noticed.

Worth, perhaps, mentioning the “takeaways” from the whole process, in terms of managing heart when cycling:

- keep >90%HR to a small percentage of the ride, don’t bash away at that rate for a lot of the ride (I still occasionally get this wrong);

- try to ramp effort levels up and down fairly smoothly, rather than going “full-on” direct to “off” or vice-versa;

- be really careful about combining coffee and cycling. For me, it’s definitely a very bad idea to cycle hard when buzzing on caffeine. These days I drink one mug of coffee at breakfast, then that is it; I don’t even have a coffee at a coffee stop, I’ll have squash if the weather is warm, and maybe hot chocolate if it’s cold.

- being stressed, poor hydration and poor sleep can make a significant difference to how the heart responds to exercise.
alexp78
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by alexp78 »

No sensation of "butterflies", although I wasn't looking for it.

The spike problem occurred at least a dozen times in 2020 and the same in 2021. I only ride in the summer (UK). And it has NEVER occurred indoors on the X-trainer. I used to workout at 140 to 150 bpm, but after reading the warning blurb included with the Beurer watch I reduced to 80-90% of my max, which is 125 to 140 bpm, as I'm 65.

Nearholmer: thanks for the useful comments about sleep (I'm bad) and coffee (oh no! I live for this!).

In the meantime I'll be collecting spike events wearing both watches and swapping between straps.
alexp78
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Re: Momentary Heart Rate Spike 223bpm

Post by alexp78 »

... BTW I wrote in after seeing David2504's letter in the Cycling UK magazine !
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