Uphill versus Against the Wind
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Just back from battling for 20 miles into a 20mph headwind. Give me a hill any day!
geomannie
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Why is it proportional to the cube when air resistance is proportional to the square of the vehicle speed. Something perhaps drivers of electric cars might become aware of if they want the greatest range between charges.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
I don't peddle bikes.
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
I have now read the link posted earlier viewtopic.php?t=101012
It's pretty much clever people with maths and its complicated, but lots of interesting stuff.
I often call Southend seafront the longest hill in Essex when pedalling against a strong wind. I can't do the maths, so I'll improvise. Today was gentle Sou Westerly so about 2% hill equivalent. Tomorrow, plus 20 mph wind, so I'll call that a 5-6%. I'm sure this isn't (too) accurate, but if I don't tell anyone then it'll be alright.
By the way, people who think the headwind shifts when they turn round should check out "apparent wind".
It's pretty much clever people with maths and its complicated, but lots of interesting stuff.
I often call Southend seafront the longest hill in Essex when pedalling against a strong wind. I can't do the maths, so I'll improvise. Today was gentle Sou Westerly so about 2% hill equivalent. Tomorrow, plus 20 mph wind, so I'll call that a 5-6%. I'm sure this isn't (too) accurate, but if I don't tell anyone then it'll be alright.
By the way, people who think the headwind shifts when they turn round should check out "apparent wind".
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
The aerodynamic force is proportional to the square of the air speed. For any force the power required is the product of the force and the speed (in the relevant direction). So the power is proportional to the cube.
Jonathan
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
I have recently started campaigning for Norfolk Highways to be led by an adherent of MC Escher, so that all roads will be made downhill in both directions!thirdcrank wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 3:58pm IMO a big difference (in spite of my belief that the highwaymen jack up all hills every winter to increase their gradients)
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
By the time they've "surface dressed" them after leaving all the potholes unfixed they'd still be unridable.mjr wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 5:33pmI have recently started campaigning for Norfolk Highways to be led by an adherent of MC Escher, so that all roads will be made downhill in both directions!thirdcrank wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 3:58pm IMO a big difference (in spite of my belief that the highwaymen jack up all hills every winter to increase their gradients)
Ian
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
I have to agree with this - a long climb like the tourmalet or Galibier offers and end which eventually comes into sight.thirdcrank wrote: ↑28 Jan 2022, 3:58pm We must have had other threads on this besides that linked above.
IMO a big difference (in spite of my belief that the highwaymen jack up all hills every winter to increase their gradients) is that hills are dependable where the wind isn't. Riding up a hill is money in the bank, or at least pedalling effort converted to potential energy. Wind speed and direction are largely a matter of luck, and as has been pointed out, struggling into the wind carries no guarantee of anything helpful on the return journey. Descending hills doesn't mean getting all the investment back as the energy may be lost through braking and then greater speed = more wind resistance, especially if it's blowing a gale into your face but overall, imo climbing = achievement while riding into a headwind = annoyance at least.
The most miserable couple of days I have spent was cycling from Utrecht to the Hook into an interminable headwind.
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Go to Crete where you can combine uphill and against the wind!
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Very true. I once attempted to ride Route 66 from Chicago. Flat as a pancake with day after day of 25 - 35 mph headwinds with more forecast just wore me out. I got to New Mexico and couldn't take any more. In the end I paid somebody to drive me 150 miles to Albuquerque and flew home. I still feel like I failed. All very depressing. I did once ride from Utrecht to the Hook. This was ten times worse.
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
And if you’d gone the other way? Experience in cycling and sailing says it doesn't help.PJ520 wrote: ↑3 Feb 2022, 4:46pmVery true. I once attempted to ride Route 66 from Chicago. Flat as a pancake with day after day of 25 - 35 mph headwinds with more forecast just wore me out. I got to New Mexico and couldn't take any more. In the end I paid somebody to drive me 150 miles to Albuquerque and flew home. I still feel like I failed. All very depressing.
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
The people I met going the other way were having the time of their lives. Just to add to the misery.nez wrote: ↑3 Feb 2022, 4:51pmAnd if you’d gone the other way? Experience in cycling and sailing says it doesn't help.PJ520 wrote: ↑3 Feb 2022, 4:46pmVery true. I once attempted to ride Route 66 from Chicago. Flat as a pancake with day after day of 25 - 35 mph headwinds with more forecast just wore me out. I got to New Mexico and couldn't take any more. In the end I paid somebody to drive me 150 miles to Albuquerque and flew home. I still feel like I failed. All very depressing.
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Squish squash for another pet theory
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
One other problem with headwinds in winter is that they are cold. At least hills warm you up in one direction
Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Well this week has certainly been putting the headwind theory to the test. And I can testify it’s bloody awful.
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind
Kinder Downfall: Strong winds force waterfall to 'flow backwards'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... e-60246800
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... e-60246800