Uphill versus Against the Wind

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
simonhill
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Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by simonhill »

Is the effort you put into cycling uphill the same as that for cycling against the wind?

It sounds like a simple yes, but is it?
Jdsk
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by Jdsk »

Power required?

Or technique used to deliver that power?

And then there are the psychological aspects...

Jonathan
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by Vorpal »

In general, going up a hill will be more effort.

That said, it depends somewhat on cyclist & wind speed. Aerodynamic drag increases with the speed (cyclist speed + headwind speed). In substantial headwind it could be possible to put out more watts for less distance than up a steep hill, but that would be a pretty extreme situation.

I'd offer to do a rough calculation, but I really cannot commit the time at the moment.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Jdsk
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by Jdsk »

The dependence of power on speed is very different: for climbing it's proportional to speed but for air resistance it's proportional to the cube of (air) speed.

Jonathan
peetee
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by peetee »

In my twenties at 9 1/2 stone the odds were definitely stacked against me into the wind. Now in my fifties, 12 stone and less fit to boot, it’s pretty even.
I’m sure most people would find that hills are harder but as previously stated I think psychology plays a big part in this.
In my prime in time trials I would usually average 20mph. My best 10 mile result was 23mph average where riders I had trounced on the hills were averaging 27mph. In terms of additional power that is very significant; 60% if my calculations are correct. Flip that over to the gravity test and it suggests that to equal my time on a hill climb they would have to weigh 15 stones. Not only were they not that big but they were very significantly slower so something was holding them back and I believe that was the fear and dread created by the reputation that hill climbs are the toughest events on the calendar leading to poor preparation, poor technique and negative attitude.
Last edited by peetee on 27 Jan 2022, 3:44pm, edited 2 times in total.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Jdsk
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by Jdsk »

peetee wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 3:19pm In my twenties at 9 1/2 stone the odds were definitely stacked against me into the wind. Now in my fifties, 12 stone and less fit to boot, it’s pretty even.
Not sure what you're saying here. More, please.

Uphill power is proportional to mass. Air resistance isn't affected by mass, but is proportional to frontal area.

(All as first approximations.)

Jonathan
peetee
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by peetee »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 3:22pm
peetee wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 3:19pm In my twenties at 9 1/2 stone the odds were definitely stacked against me into the wind. Now in my fifties, 12 stone and less fit to boot, it’s pretty even.
Not sure what you're saying here. More, please.

Uphill power is proportional to mass. Air resistance isn't affected by mass, but is proportional to frontal area.

(All as first approximations.)

Jonathan
While you were writing this I edited the quoted post. :)
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Jdsk
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks

: - )

Jonathan
xerxes
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by xerxes »

The question is difficult to answer sensibly as it doesn't specify any conditions, i.e. distance, gradient, wind speed, time, etc.
jb
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by jb »

Hills come to an end in less time than it feels and usually with a downhill on't other side.
Riding into the wind can, and usually does last for three quarters of the ride.
Cheers
J Bro
simonhill
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by simonhill »

xerxes wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 4:01pm The question is difficult to answer sensibly as it doesn't specify any conditions, i.e. distance, gradient, wind speed, time, etc.
I purposely left it vague in the hope of drawing out some answers. I don't really know the question, but I often cycle on a seafront path with a notable headwind one way or the other and I wonder how this flat ride compares to a long climb.

Obviously 'effort' needs to be the same, but you often hear people talking about how much vertical they have done, but rarely about a long flat against the wind ride.

I just thought there may some wisdom about this out there (said as a touring cyclist who only knows about getting from A to B).
Psamathe
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by Psamathe »

Some previous opinions with opinions on equivalence):
viewtopic.php?t=101012

Ian
simonhill
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by simonhill »

Thanks Ian, I'll read that tomorrow - off for a curry now.

Although that post is from 2015, maybe hills and wind have changed by now (tee hee).
nirakaro
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by nirakaro »

simonhill wrote: 27 Jan 2022, 5:42pm you often hear people talking about how much vertical they have done, but rarely about a long flat against the wind ride.
Getting up a challenging hill gives you ego-boosting bragging rights; riding against the wind is much harder to quantify, and talking about it just sounds like whingeing.
David2504
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Re: Uphill versus Against the Wind

Post by David2504 »

Depends on the strength of the wind and steepness of the hill. And there there’s riding uphill into a wind.
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