Can the Met be trusted?

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pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by pete75 »

ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 10:58pm
pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 8:18pm
Don't affect my confidence. Am confident a lot of officers hold racist views that affect the way they carry out their duties.
One could take certain posters more seriously if the race card wasn't used like confetti to try and prove a point on a regular basis. Notwithstanding your long term hatred of the cops since you were pulled over on a motorcycle for being a public nuisance 60 years ago. :lol:
And one can be quite certain that folk who talk about the "race card" are somewhat prejudiced themselves.

Your second sentence is wrong in several ways.
1. Not hatred - mistrust
2. It was in this country, not the USA where, I believe , they do have cops.
3. Not being a public nuisance.
4. Not 60 years ago.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
ossie
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Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by ossie »

pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:13pm
ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 10:58pm
pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 8:18pm
Don't affect my confidence. Am confident a lot of officers hold racist views that affect the way they carry out their duties.
One could take certain posters more seriously if the race card wasn't used like confetti to try and prove a point on a regular basis. Notwithstanding your long term hatred of the cops since you were pulled over on a motorcycle for being a public nuisance 60 years ago. :lol:
And one can be quite certain that folk who talk about the "race card" are somewhat prejudiced themselves.
Your second sentence is wrong in several ways.
Pete

For the benefit of the forum please list your own personal experience in relation to racism at the hands of the Metropolitan Police. Clearly its a subject close to your heart so feel free to share. To draw the conclusion 'a lot' of officers are racists would surely be based on some kind of evidential quantifier to back up such a theory.
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by pete75 »

ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:18pm
pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:13pm
ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 10:58pm

One could take certain posters more seriously if the race card wasn't used like confetti to try and prove a point on a regular basis. Notwithstanding your long term hatred of the cops since you were pulled over on a motorcycle for being a public nuisance 60 years ago. :lol:
And one can be quite certain that folk who talk about the "race card" are somewhat prejudiced themselves.
Your second sentence is wrong in several ways.
Pete

For the benefit of the forum please list your own personal experience in relation to racism at the hands of the Metropolitan Police. Clearly its a subject close to your heart so feel free to share. To draw the conclusion 'a lot' of officers are racists would surely be based on some kind of evidential quantifier to back up such a theory.
Do you only think you need personal experience to know something? There have been many enquiries starting with the MacPherson report, statements by senior officers, press reports of how individuals have been treated, TV interviews etc to show that racism is rife in the Metropolitan police force and many others in this country. If you think it isn't, present your evidence that it is not so.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ah-everard
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... d-misogyny
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 04229.html
https://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org ... et-police/
https://www.itv.com/news/london/2023-01 ... f-suicidal
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... colleagues
https://www.insider.com/how-police-raci ... is-2022-11
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
ossie
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Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by ossie »

pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:27pm
ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:18pm
pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:13pm

And one can be quite certain that folk who talk about the "race card" are somewhat prejudiced themselves.
Your second sentence is wrong in several ways.
Pete

For the benefit of the forum please list your own personal experience in relation to racism at the hands of the Metropolitan Police. Clearly its a subject close to your heart so feel free to share. To draw the conclusion 'a lot' of officers are racists would surely be based on some kind of evidential quantifier to back up such a theory.
Do you only think you need personal experience to know something? There have been many enquiries starting with the MacPherson report, statements by senior officers, press reports of how individuals have been treated, TV interviews etc to show that racism is rife in the Metropolitan police force and many others in this country. If you think it isn't, present your evidence that it is not so.
There were 1368 complaints of racial discrimination by officers and staff between 2015-2020, only 22 cases were upheld despite 480 cases referred to the IOPC. 22 cases hardly fits with your assertion that 'alot' of police officers hold racist views' from an organisation of 45000 people . I appreciate you keep editing in a desperate attempt to prove a point but the facts are in the link below. I know you probably don't even like the IOPC despite them being more independent than a mothers morning meeting.

https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metrop ... omplaints/
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by reohn2 »

Ossie
Did you watch the YT link I referred to in my last post?

A first hand account,whilst not the MET but about Greater Manchester police.
I have a close friend who I've known for some 30 years,who is mixed race,a bank manager,linguist,musician and actor and one of the nicest people I've ever met,who would when living in the area where I live and working in central Manchester(he now lives in North Wales)be stopped and questioned on a regular basis for nothing at all other than to be abused by racist slurs and name calling by police officers,sometimes by the same officers more than once in the same week.
The stories he's told me would beggar belief if I didn't know him better than I do
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by pete75 »

ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:47pm
pete75 wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:27pm
ossie wrote: 2 Mar 2023, 11:18pm

Pete

For the benefit of the forum please list your own personal experience in relation to racism at the hands of the Metropolitan Police. Clearly its a subject close to your heart so feel free to share. To draw the conclusion 'a lot' of officers are racists would surely be based on some kind of evidential quantifier to back up such a theory.
Do you only think you need personal experience to know something? There have been many enquiries starting with the MacPherson report, statements by senior officers, press reports of how individuals have been treated, TV interviews etc to show that racism is rife in the Metropolitan police force and many others in this country. If you think it isn't, present your evidence that it is not so.
There were 1368 complaints of racial discrimination by officers and staff between 2015-2020, only 22 cases were upheld despite 480 cases referred to the IOPC. 22 cases hardly fits with your assertion that 'alot' of police officers hold racist views' from an organisation of 45000 people . I appreciate you keep editing in a desperate attempt to prove a point but the facts are in the link below. I know you probably don't even like the IOPC despite them being more independent than a mothers morning meeting.

https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metrop ... omplaints/
What the hell is a mothers morning meeting?
Is this the organisation you're claiming is independent? https://novaramedia.com/2022/11/21/why- ... dependent/

Do you think this woman, a former detective superintendent is lying, when she says "The Met was corrupt, racist and misogynistic when I worked there – and still is" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ah-everard or this report is wrong in it's findings when it found "systemic racism" in the Metropolitan Police https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... nds-review or the Macpherson report when it found the organisation institutionally racist?
Even the Met Commissioner wrote to Louise Casey “The evidence is clear: the disproportionate way in which you have showed us Black and Asian officers and staff have been treated shows patterns of unacceptable discrimination that clearly amount to systemic bias,” - is he lying?

The number of complaints prove little, when almost every official report on racism in the Met concludes that it's rife. Your stats on complaints prove nothing without any information about the proportion of racist incidents actually result in a complaint.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
ossie
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Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by ossie »

pete75 wrote: 3 Mar 2023, 8:48am
Is this the organisation you're claiming is independent? https://novaramedia.com/2022/11/21/why- ... dependent/

The author of that load of nonsense is Larry Lock a civil liberties lawyer in training :roll: . The guy isn't even qualified and the link is full of errors. Must do better.

This is the board of the IOPC.

https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/who-we-are/our-people

Take a look at each and every profile and make your own mind up. You will not find a more diverse bunch of individuals on the planet and trust me they've tried their hardest to recruit them. The most important quality for this lot is to be independent and impartial, obviously you don't think they are. When you look at the vast number of complaints they have to investigate (and they do investigate), its worth remembering the majority of complaints are actually malicious . The complaints system is massively abused by criminal gangs, certain individuals and demographics in an effort to prevent the Police simply doing their job. That doesn't mean that every complaint is true as you and Larry think, indeed most aren't.

There will always be racists in every sector of employment and society, including the police ,however to claim as you have repeatedly that a lot of police officers are racist couldn't be further from the truth in my experience.
wheelyhappy99
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Joined: 5 Jul 2020, 11:12am

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by wheelyhappy99 »

Unless there's evidence that people in the Met have different characteristics from other police forces this isn't very reassuring.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -witnesses
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Lance Dopestrong
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Location: Duddington, in the belly button of England

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by Lance Dopestrong »

Oh, don't you worry, there are bad 'uns everywhere but the Met is a different planet or culture which positively breeds it.

I went there on a training course at Hendon many moons ago and almost got in trouble because I asked for a black coffee in the canteen, and the chap serving me got offended that. He called his supervisor who agreed with him and advised me on the Met guidelines re this sort of thing, and being a stranger in a strange land I acquiesced and changed my order to a coffee without milk (had I been on my gome turf I'd have insisted on a black coffee.)

So while he Met are wasting time and resources on what is the correct term of address for a cup of coffee they're hiring transferees from other forces, one of whom was nicknamed "the rapist" by the colleagues of his original force. You couldn't make it up.

Did several courses there and the culture it was nuts. Inconsequential rubbish attracts valuable attention, time and resources, while really serious stuff was going on everywhere went unchallenged simply because it was no political or societal imperative to do anything about it at that moment in time. By my reckoning I've either done training or worked at 11 forces, plus my own, and nothing comes close to the absurdity of Met priorities that have allowed the situation to come about as at has, and its all now so entrenched I doubt it could ever change. It really needs disestablishing and a new organisation formed in its place like they government did with the RUC, but I can't see it ever happening for all sorts of reasons.

In the mean time, remove HR (Human Remains, as they are lovingly known in the dibble) from the recruitment process and go back to the old methods where any prospective candidate was scrutinised minutely, his friends, associates and workmates interviewed, and everything about them generally probed in minute detail. That was the old method when I joined in the 80's and it would have stopped the likes of Couzens from ever getting in the Met, and possibly kept his like out of uniform entirely.
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pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by pete75 »

ossie wrote: 3 Mar 2023, 9:36pm When you look at the vast number of complaints they have to investigate (and they do investigate), its worth remembering the majority of complaints are actually malicious . The complaints system is massively abused by criminal gangs, certain individuals and demographics in an effort to prevent the Police simply doing their job.
Oh dear. Conspiracy theories around the people who make complaints about the police now. :lol:
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
ossie
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Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by ossie »

pete75 wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 6:04pm
Oh dear. Conspiracy theories around the people who make complaints about the police now. :lol:
Hardly a conspiracy theory and don't get me started on vexatious litigants. It's worth noting that there are people on here with a vast amount of policing experience and then there's you quoting an unqualified ' runner ' from an unknown practice as fact. I have no idea of your profession or ex profession but I wouldn't even attempt to accuse you of conspiracy theories. Trust me if only genuine complaints were made you could probably cut complaint departments in half staffing wise. It's a shame as we need the genuine complainants to get the service they need.

A typical scenario is officer A is extremely good at his job. So good that the criminal group, the yobs, the anti social behaviour merchants, the drug dealers want him or her 'off their back'. The tried and test method is to make numerous complaints about officer A accusing them of harassment, discrimination, all malicious. If that doesn't work Officer A may be followed home and their private life targeted. Some individuals also target officer B, C & D simply as a matter of routine.

That aside I've picked a small provincial force (Dorset) who have absolutely nothing to do with the Met and couldn't be further removed. In 2020/21 they received 785 complaints. Only 6% were upheld. Malicious complaints are endemic and that isn't a conspiracy.
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by Lance Dopestrong »

pete75 wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 6:04pm
ossie wrote: 3 Mar 2023, 9:36pm When you look at the vast number of complaints they have to investigate (and they do investigate), its worth remembering the majority of complaints are actually malicious . The complaints system is massively abused by criminal gangs, certain individuals and demographics in an effort to prevent the Police simply doing their job.
Oh dear. Conspiracy theories around the people who make complaints about the police now. :lol:
Except Ossie is correct. Since the introduction of BWV there is now a good weight of footage that supports his assertion, and most complaints are not upheld on the basis of that incontrovertible evidence.
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pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by pete75 »

Lance Dopestrong wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 12:24am
pete75 wrote: 11 Mar 2023, 6:04pm
ossie wrote: 3 Mar 2023, 9:36pm When you look at the vast number of complaints they have to investigate (and they do investigate), its worth remembering the majority of complaints are actually malicious . The complaints system is massively abused by criminal gangs, certain individuals and demographics in an effort to prevent the Police simply doing their job.
Oh dear. Conspiracy theories around the people who make complaints about the police now. :lol:
Except Ossie is correct. Since the introduction of BWV there is now a good weight of footage that supports his assertion, and most complaints are not upheld on the basis of that incontrovertible evidence.
Well if it's true what you and he say most police forces are not good at convincing the public they are unbiased and trustworthy.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
thirdcrank
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Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by thirdcrank »

Slowtwitch wrote: 1 Feb 2022, 5:26am In what looks everyday, as it slowly, sickeningly unfolds the police investigation into Partygate is another monumental whitewash.

Is it naive to think the Metropolitan police will investigate their employers without 'fear of favour'? Surely another force should be leading the investigation? I see trouble ahead.
I see this may be approaching some sort of conclusion

Boris Johnson to give evidence to Partygate inquiry next week

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64954751
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Can the Met be trusted?

Post by pete75 »

Slowtwitch wrote: 1 Feb 2022, 5:26am In what looks everyday, as it slowly, sickeningly unfolds the police investigation into Partygate is another monumental whitewash.

Is it naive to think the Metropolitan police will investigate their employers without 'fear of favour'? Surely another force should be leading the investigation? I see trouble ahead.
It may be difficult for an officer from another force to investigate the Met.

'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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