Which 11sp Chain

[Jules59]

Is it possible to distinguish between a KMC X11 and a KMC X11 EPT chain ?
Just wondered what is on my bike.

[ElCani]

Any 11 speed KMC chain will be fine. The skipping you are experiencing is due to the cassette being worn beyond the point at which it will accept a new chain.

[AndyK]

KMC for me everytime. I generally buy the cheaper ones and they seem to last at least 3x as long as shimano

But which one ? That's my point. According to shimano the chain is "super narrow and "directional" but what does that mean in KMC ??

It Means Nothing.

Is it made by KMC? Does it say 11-speed? It'll work. Ditto SRAM 11-speed chains.

As you go up the price scale you're paying for lighter weight and/or longer life and/or (maybe) smoother shifting. Or sometimes you're just paying for bling. (Gold! My chain is gold!! I have the Midas Touch!!!)

"Super-narrow" is now a meaningless piece of marketing speak. It used to mean something back around the time 10-speed came in. (Or was it 9-speed?)

Shimano's "Directional" chains are designed to be put on the bike only one way round, whereas KMC and SRAM chains are identical either way round.

The only vaguely plausible justification I've seen for the directional chains is that they are optimised for the different shifting movements: the outer side of the chain needs to be good at catching onto the pins and ramps on the chainrings that drag it from small to bigger chainring at the front, while the inner side of the chain needs to be good at climbing up the sprockets at the back - er - somehow. Don't ask me. I did say it was only vaguely plausible.

However I (and I think the majority of posters here) have found it hard to detect any practical difference in use between those directional chains and the non-directional KMC/SRAM chains.

[Slowtwitch]

Directional means nothing imo, just another bit of marketing hype.

[Cowsham]

Any 11 speed KMC chain will be fine. The skipping you are experiencing is due to the cassette being worn beyond the point at which it will accept a new chain.

Most definitely not the case.

[Cowsham]

KMC for me everytime. I generally buy the cheaper ones and they seem to last at least 3x as long as shimano

But which one ? That's my point. According to shimano the chain is "super narrow and "directional" but what does that mean in KMC ??

"Super-narrow" is now a meaningless piece of marketing speak. It used to mean something back around the time 10-speed came in. (Or was it 9-speed?)

I can see how that could be true ( like HD is now the norm on most tvs ) but not sure about the rest -- we have machines at work that have directional chains and if the techs put them on the wrong way all manner of mayhem ensues. ( oh and in case you're wondering yes the chain spring clip is not what the techs do wrong -- ie they know how to put that on in the right direction )

[Cowsham]

My thoughts are -- the kmc chain is a fraction too wide maybe due to the outside plates being slightly heavier gauge to facilitate the x pattern and on the smaller sprockets is riding up onto an adjacent sprocket. The kmc does look very tight between the sprockets where the shimano has a little more room either side. It's a tiny difference but I can see it.

[ElCani]

I am confused. The behaviour you describe is exactly that which is associated with a cassette that has sprockets which are worn beyond the point at which they will accept a new chain. You cannot tell whether this has happened or not just by looking at the cassette or seeing how floppy the chain is. The picture you posted indicates how much side-to-side flexibility the chain has and says nothing about pin wear.

Measuring the chain length will show you how much ‘stretch’ the chain has, often anything between 0.75 and 1% will skip on a new cassette. But you don’t even need to bother doing this, because the fact that your new chain skips on the smaller sprockets of the old cassette tells you all you need to know! Assuming you know how to adjust a drivetrain, which it sounds like you do.

How can you be so sure that the problem is not an excessively worn cassette?

[Cowsham]

I am confused. The behaviour you describe is exactly that which is associated with a cassette that has sprockets which are worn beyond the point at which they will accept a new chain. You cannot tell whether this has happened or not just by looking at the cassette or seeing how floppy the chain is. The picture you posted indicates how much side-to-side flexibility the chain has and says nothing about pin wear.

Measuring the chain length will show you how much ‘stretch’ the chain has, often anything between 0.75 and 1% will skip on a new cassette. But you don’t even need to bother doing this, because the fact that your new chain skips on the smaller sprockets of the old cassette tells you all you need to know! Assuming you know how to adjust a drivetrain, which it sounds like you do.

How can you be so sure that the problem is not an excessively worn cassette?

Because I put a brand spanking new cassette on with the new chain. Same result -- no amount of adjusting helps. Put the old shim again back on -- no skip -- put old cassette on -- no skip --

[ElCani]

I am confused. The behaviour you describe is exactly that which is associated with a cassette that has sprockets which are worn beyond the point at which they will accept a new chain. You cannot tell whether this has happened or not just by looking at the cassette or seeing how floppy the chain is. The picture you posted indicates how much side-to-side flexibility the chain has and says nothing about pin wear.

Measuring the chain length will show you how much ‘stretch’ the chain has, often anything between 0.75 and 1% will skip on a new cassette. But you don’t even need to bother doing this, because the fact that your new chain skips on the smaller sprockets of the old cassette tells you all you need to know! Assuming you know how to adjust a drivetrain, which it sounds like you do.

How can you be so sure that the problem is not an excessively worn cassette?

Because I put a brand spanking new cassette on with the new chain. Same result -- no amount of adjusting helps. Put the old shim again back on -- no skip -- put old cassette on -- no skip --

Oh. Am I going mad, or is this the first time you’ve stated that you’ve tried the new cassette, new chain combo? From your earlier post where you described what you did I understood that you’d bought a new cassette but not yet fitted it?

[Cowsham]

I am confused. The behaviour you describe is exactly that which is associated with a cassette that has sprockets which are worn beyond the point at which they will accept a new chain. You cannot tell whether this has happened or not just by looking at the cassette or seeing how floppy the chain is. The picture you posted indicates how much side-to-side flexibility the chain has and says nothing about pin wear.

Measuring the chain length will show you how much ‘stretch’ the chain has, often anything between 0.75 and 1% will skip on a new cassette. But you don’t even need to bother doing this, because the fact that your new chain skips on the smaller sprockets of the old cassette tells you all you need to know! Assuming you know how to adjust a drivetrain, which it sounds like you do.

How can you be so sure that the problem is not an excessively worn cassette?

Because I put a brand spanking new cassette on with the new chain. Same result -- no amount of adjusting helps. Put the old shim again back on -- no skip -- put old cassette on -- no skip --

Oh. Am I going mad, or is this the first time you’ve stated that you’ve tried the new cassette, new chain combo? From your earlier post where you described what you did I understood that you’d bought a new cassette but not yet fitted it?

I did look at it first comparing it with the old that's true but I fitted it knowing there was no real point -- I know what a worn out sprocket looks like and the old one was not worn compared to the new. If anything the problem got worse so I put the old cassette back on then tried the old chain back on -- no skip.

[NickJP]

I've used both KMC and SRAM 11-speed chains on Shimano 11-speed cassettes and have done so for years without any problems. If the chain is skipping, the problem is not due to the chain being a different brand from the cassette.

[Slowtwitch]

I've used both KMC and SRAM 11-speed chains on Shimano 11-speed cassettes and have done so for years without any problems. If the chain is skipping, the problem is not due to the chain being a different brand from the cassette.

Agreed, there is definitely something else at play here. How are you joining the chain?

[iandusud]

Directional means nothing imo, just another bit of marketing hype.

The Shimano directional HG54 (10 speed) chain definitely needs to fitted the right way round and when fitted correctly gives very good downshifts (going to larger sprockets). I'm generally a bit cynical about such stuff but these chains are very impressive.

[Slowtwitch]

Directional means nothing imo, just another bit of marketing hype.

The Shimano directional HG54 (10 speed) chain definitely needs to fitted the right way round and when fitted correctly gives very good downshifts (going to larger sprockets). I'm generally a bit cynical about such stuff but these chains are very impressive.

I was referring to the KMC chains in the thread above, which can be fitted either direction