? 20” Wheel folding Bikes

[Carlton green]

For some time I’ve been minded to get a 20” wheel bike for general use and for holiday use; the smaller wheels should enable it to fit more easily (than 700C’s) within a car and with car transport in mind I suppose that I’d be better off with a folder. (Edit. Reading more I’m reminded of the additional value of a folding option as it enables carriage on public transport.) At one time - and it may still end up that way - I was looking towards a Raleigh Twenty or a Dawkes Kingpin but they use some hard to find (replacement) parts and steel rim wheels tend not to work well as braking surfaces. Perhaps something a little more recent with alloy rims and easier to find (replacement) parts would be better - something second-hand and within a modest budget.

I’m wondering what insights and experiences members might have of using 20” wheel folding bikes for longer rides, let’s say 60 miles worth ‘cause if it’ll do 60 then it’ll do nearly any mileage. What works, what rides well, what can be changed to work really well, what’s a bit of a pain and what’s simply best left alone?

[RickH]

I don't think the 20"wheels make that much difference if everything else is right. I've got a Circe Helios tandem that has done plenty of 60+ mile rides with my visually impaired friend stoking. The longest we've done in a day is 91 miles, which was day 1 of a 2 day Cardiff to Chester ride (day 2 being 82 miles). Clare now has a 700c Cannondale tandem which is probably a little quicker on good roads, but doesn't handle loose/rough surfaces quite as well due to the narrower tyres (the Cannondale's clearances limit it to 32mm tyres where the Circe is on 47 to 55mm tyres). The feel of the ride is different - the smaller wheels tend to drop down holes slightly more but the bigger tyre volume & lower pressures smooths out the jolts better. Overall I think the Circe is a little more comfortable to ride.

[simonineaston]

My own take is that 20" (well they're not actually twenty inches, as I found out last night... see below) wheels with tyres pumped up hard enough to be able to enjoy good rolling, need suspension. The longer the ride, the more evident that will become. There are ways of adding shock absorbtion to small-wheel bikes, other than suspending the wheels, but my own view is that one might as well cut to the chase and get the latter in the first place.

"twenty inches" - or not

[RickH]

My own take is that 20" (well they're not actually twenty inches, as I found out last night... see below) wheels with tyres pumped up hard enough to be able to enjoy good rolling, need suspension. The longer the ride, the more evident that will become. There are ways of adding shock absorbtion to small-wheel bikes, other than suspending the wheels, but my own view is that one might as well cut to the chase and get the latter in the first place.IMG_0201.JPG

The Circe Helios's wheels - 406mm ETRTO with 47mm Marathons - are nominally ~19.7" ((47+47+406/25.4)) &, without hoicking the tandem off its hook in the shed to check accurately, the actual size isn't far off that. I run the tyres at around 50psi with 2 adults aboard which seems to roll OK & give reasonable comfort. When I was running 55mm Big Apples the nominal wheel size was 20.3 (but I found the BAs too prone to sidewall damage, particularly the rear, when taking the bike off-road & switched back to Marathons).

[gaz]

I have a pre-loved Dahon 20" wheel folder which I use primarily for shove it in the back of the car before pootling off somewhere traffic free trips with Mrs gaz.

Typical journeys are eight miles each way at a relaxed pace with day luggage.

I find the riding position a little cramped, I would be reluctant to tackle a longer journey on the Dahon. No doubt somebody has toured the globe on one.

[RickH]

I suppose for the ultimate on foldables, albeit generally with wheel sizes smaller than 20" & expensive to boot, Kinetics Custom build Bromptons are interesting. Even if just to browse through.

https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/categ ... om-builds/

There's even a "fat" version in the gallery with 16x3" tyres on a Rohloff hub! (link)


If someone offered to buy me one I'd be tempted by a Rohloff or Alfine 11 one with 18" Big Apples.

[rjb]

This is what you can do to a Kingpin



Courtesy of lesvelosdepatrick.com his web site also shows a few raleigh 20's which he has upgraded too.

[Richard Fairhurst]

I have a Bike Friday New World Tourist with 20in wheels. It's a terrific bike and will do 50/60 miles in a day no problem. I've ridden the upper Rhine, the Catskills in New York State, bits of the Black Forest, off-road trails in New Zealand... it copes with them all.

It doesn't fold anywhere near as small as a Brompton. I'm happy taking it on a train but would feel a bit awkward doing it at rush-hour every day. With a little dismantling, though, it'll go in a standard airline suitcase. Bike Friday make a big thing of using standard parts, so servicing isn't an issue.

They're not cheap: I was lucky enough to find mine second-hand, and they sometimes pop up on Gumtree or eBay (there's a BF Pocket Rocket on Gumtree right now which I'd love were it the right size...), but they don't have a UK importer so they're difficult to buy new. But I'd strongly recommend investigating them.

[Winders]

One of the main issues is that with smaller wheels you are limited to short and medium arm length rear derailleurs which can limit your gear options. I now live in a city built on a volcanic field so I’ve found that a Microshift Advent setup with a wide range cassette allows for the terrain while the medium length derailleur is just short enough to make things comfortable on road with 406 size wheels.

Both Dahon and Tern have offered touring models in the past using a dual drive setup, which has its pros and cons.

Regardless of choice, Schwalbe Big Apple tyres and a sprung Brooks saddle will help iron out any bumps you’ll feel from the small wheels.

[JJF]

Like Richard F above, I too have a Bike Friday New World Tourist. I wanted a bike that would be good to ride but would also enable travel on trains. (At the time I didn't realise that I could travel very widely on the continent's trains without folding). I was influenced by an article by CJ in the CTC mag (Feb/Mar 1995). He referred to it as "a genuine performance bicycle." I bought it in 1999. My touring hasn't been quite as adventurous as Richard F but I have ridden in several European countries, mostly on roads and occasional rutted tracks. Only travelled by air once. CTC Tour in Croatia Sept 2005. A suitcase is much easier than parting with your bike at Check-in. My comments on foldability and rideability are the same as Richard's.

[Slowtwitch]

I have an old Dawes Kingpin folder and absolutely love it. If you can get a hold of one, grab it! They're becoming collectors items now, like Raleigh Choppers.

[Slowtwitch]

This is how it looks after restoration

[Carlton green]

My thanks to everyone who has supported the thread so far. Interesting answers and I hope to hear (read) more.

This is how it looks after restoration

That looks tidy, congratulations. I hope that you get years of pleasure from it.

[rjb]

There's no hinge in that kingpin above so if it folds it's a write off.

But it's a nice restoration BTW.

[Bonzo Banana]

This is how it looks after restoration

Gorgeous bike but doesn't appear to be a folding bike its the shopper version.

I must admit I love the classic folding bikes Twenty and Kingpin. When I see modern folding bikes with exposed derailleur gears caked in mud and very close to touching the ground it always looks like a poor engineering choice which I guess we can thank Dahon for. The older folding bikes with hub gears seemed a much better option even if a bit low geared. I personally don't like going too fast on a folding bike with small wheels so prefer the more leisurely speed of this older folding bikes. There are always lots of cheap folding bikes on ebay I find;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... 0&_fosrp=1

The Carrera Transit is a very good folding bike which I've seen locally go sub £100 on ebay, gumtree, facebook marketplace. It's a modern folding bike but with a 3 speed Nexus hub. It's got decent V brakes and relatively light. Same bike as the Muddyfox Evolve 200 except that has a 7 speed Nexus hub. The 3 speed Nexus hub is a lot simpler and a lot more reliable than the Nexus 7 though (actually a 9 speed hub with 2 gears mapped out from selection so even more complicated than the Nexus .