Cycling UK Forum

Thehairs1970 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2022, 6:06pm

leftpoole wrote: ↑18 Feb 2022, 12:42pm After what seems like a hundred years of camping, the only advice I can give you is 1) Do not buy an American tent unless using it in a non rainy Country. 2) Do not concern yourself with all this Hydrostatic head nonsense. These tents are waterproof. Buy the best that you can afford.
I used to have Hilleberg tents and nothing else. All sold. No need for expense like that.

Re the don’t buy American tents - can you elaborate? Let’s face it, not all America is dry. The northwest and northeast are both known as wet areas. And if I should ignore HH, doesn’t this add less fuel to the fire?

Main reason, warranty problems. Second reason quality. Third reason most built for dryer areas. (in my own opinion)

pjclinch wrote: ↑18 Feb 2022, 1:24pm

leftpoole wrote: ↑18 Feb 2022, 12:42pm After what seems like a hundred years of camping, the only advice I can give you is 1) Do not buy an American tent unless using it in a non rainy Country. 2) Do not concern yourself with all this Hydrostatic head nonsense. These tents are waterproof. Buy the best that you can afford.
I used to have Hilleberg tents and nothing else. All sold. No need for expense like that.

Buy the best that you can afford comes back to the issue of "first, define 'Best'". Which is a game as all tents are compromises. I personally favour Hilles not because they're objectively "the best" but because it seems my particular preferences fit their design preferences better than anyone else's.
Another issue is if you buy the best tent you can afford that might mean spending less on, say, a sleeping mat which might compromise the overall goal of the nicest time overall. As with most things reliant on a range of gear, it doesn't generally make sense to really overdo one aspect if that means an adverse impact elsewhere, as you tend to end up with a weakest link problem.

Pete.

Pete, For years I owned Hilleberg tents (various). Best backpacking/cycling tents money can buy in my opinion.
But why have all that money sitting in a cupboard 30-40 weeks a year?
I now use Robens from a Danish company. Are these as good as Hilleberg? In my opinion yes. They are slightly heavier but very well made tents (China!) Costs are more than 50% less than Hilleberg.
Now I can no longer cycle (very much) and can no longer cycle tour, I have a Triumph Bonneville motorcycle. The extra slight weight increase is no bother obviously.

Sweep wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 11:36am

pjclinch wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 10:47am

We all have our biases. I personally have never liked Terra Nova tents... but look at their track record and they clearly know what they're at and have a lot of devoted fans.

at the risk of a divert, can I ask why?

The chunkier stuff uses PU coatings so they can be seam taped, if I want chunky I want stronger and PU means weaker. The porches are generally smaller then I'd like and they're generally inner first pitches.

The very light stuff has thinner groundsheets than I want, again porches typically on the small side, zips not reassuringly chunky etc.

This is all personal preference stuff though. As noted before, all tents are compromises so very much different strokes for different folks.

Pete.

leftpoole wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 1:18pm

Pete, For years I owned Hilleberg tents (various). Best backpacking/cycling tents money can buy in my opinion.
But why have all that money sitting in a cupboard 30-40 weeks a year?
I now use Robens from a Danish company. Are these as good as Hilleberg? In my opinion yes.

I don't sleep in a brand, I sleep in a tent, and when shopping I look at individual tents and map those to what I want.
We use a Kaitum 3 more often than not as a particular sweet-spot of weight, space, strength and ease of use for our particular needs. Much as I'd love to have paid a lot less for a similar Robens, there isn't one that ticks the same boxes in quite the same way.
Hille do lots of models I don't especially like and wouldn't buy, but they're for folk with different priorities to me. As are the tents in the Robens line.

Pete.

pjclinch wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 2:43pm

Sweep wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 11:36am

pjclinch wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 10:47am

We all have our biases. I personally have never liked Terra Nova tents... but look at their track record and they clearly know what they're at and have a lot of devoted fans.

at the risk of a divert, can I ask why?

The chunkier stuff uses PU coatings so they can be seam taped, if I want chunky I want stronger and PU means weaker. The porches are generally smaller then I'd like and they're generally inner first pitches.

The very light stuff has thinner groundsheets than I want, again porches typically on the small side, zips not reassuringly chunky etc.

This is all personal preference stuff though. As noted before, all tents are compromises so very much different strokes for different folks.

Pete.

thanks for the reply.

'Merkin tent issues...

leftpoole wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 1:12pm
Main reason, warranty problems. Second reason quality. Third reason most built for dryer areas. (in my own opinion)

Warranties... Not all companies are created equal in this respect, but I've seen nothing to suggest a general national trend of US firms being bad. And given that US tent builders include Mountain Hardwear and North Face it's effectively saying you can't really trust any gear made by a couple of the world's leading mountaineering manufacturers, and I don't think that's fair.
Warranties are generally dealt with through the shop rather than directly by the firm in any case. You'll find horror anecdotes if you look, but you'll find them for e.g. Terra Nova alongside tales of fabulous customer service.

Quality is down mostly to whatever a firm wants to spend on QA in their Chinese contractors' factories, or for smaller brands in their own. Again, I don't see this as a national/regional split.

"Mostly" may be the case (looking around a North Face outlet in San Francisco many years past I was looking over a tent and was asked if I'd want the "optional rain fly"), but really that's a case of not looking at unsuitable designs, rather than not looking at American designs.

In summary, look at the specific tent, not the country of origin or the name on the label.

Pete.

For anybody thinking of putting any of this through a practical test, today could be the day, at least it would be around here. Ground waterlogged and then some, and it's absolutely precipitating it down, driven by 40+mph wind.

pjclinch wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 2:55pm

leftpoole wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 1:18pm

Pete, For years I owned Hilleberg tents (various). Best backpacking/cycling tents money can buy in my opinion.
But why have all that money sitting in a cupboard 30-40 weeks a year?
I now use Robens from a Danish company. Are these as good as Hilleberg? In my opinion yes.

I don't sleep in a brand, I sleep in a tent, and when shopping I look at individual tents and map those to what I want.
We use a Kaitum 3 more often than not as a particular sweet-spot of weight, space, strength and ease of use for our particular needs. Much as I'd love to have paid a lot less for a similar Robens, there isn't one that ticks the same boxes in quite the same way.
Hille do lots of models I don't especially like and wouldn't buy, but they're for folk with different priorities to me. As are the tents in the Robens line.

Pete.

I now have a very nice Robens Voyager 2EX

Regarding my opinion of American designed tents-it is for design reason mainly and because I -generally -think US tents are for dryer climate . MSR, Terra Nova I have used also North Face. All these have design issues. Terra Nova try to get as light as possible forsaking space and entry. MSR are just horrible colours plus fair weather tents. As to the North Face, these are mostly difficult entry and also of course inner pitch first.
It all boils down obviously to self opinion.
Getting back to the real question asked Hydrostatic head. I still say, do not worry about it at all. Just buy a tent you like.

leftpoole wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 12:35pm Regarding my opinion of American designed tents-it is for design reason mainly and because I -generally -think US tents are for dryer climate . MSR, Terra Nova I have used also North Face. All these have design issues.

To illustrate the futility of national stereotypes, Terra Nova are British, not American. As I've noted, I'm not a fan, but I don't blame American design for that.
To write them off as all about light as possible seems particularly odd given the Canonical TN tent is probably the Quasar!

leftpoole wrote: Getting back to the real question asked Hydrostatic head. I still say, do not worry about it at all. Just buy a tent you like.

Now there I think we're in Furious Agreement!

Pete.

pjclinch wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 8:30am

gregoryoftours wrote: ↑15 Feb 2022, 6:10pm Can you tell me what you use to seal the seams?, and how do you stop it sticking the fabric to itself? Does talc work to stop the sticking? Do you paint it on while the tent is up, and how long do you leave it? The time l tried with McNet seam grip it I gave it what I thought was enough time to cure, but it was still tacky enough to totally make a mess with the fabric creating and sticking all over the place. I'd like to know a good way that works.

My Hillebergs I've never bothered, and they never leaked anyway so no reason to do it. As the seams start to pull with age they might start letting something in, but until they do I won't bother.

My Saunders tents I did back in the day, can't remember the exact product but just went in to Tiso and bought a tube of seam sealer... Rubbed it in with my fingers, left it to dry, it did.

Note that for Silnylon flys you'll need a silicone specific product. Beyond that I'm afarid I'll have to leave you at the mercy of the Interweb, but there's usually blogs and videos for this sort of thing.

Pete.

Thanks for your reply, all of my tents so far have been pu coated, so I'm probably best searching t'web as you suggest.

gregoryoftours wrote: ↑24 Feb 2022, 8:58pm

pjclinch wrote: ↑16 Feb 2022, 8:30am

gregoryoftours wrote: ↑15 Feb 2022, 6:10pm Can you tell me what you use to seal the seams?, and how do you stop it sticking the fabric to itself? Does talc work to stop the sticking? Do you paint it on while the tent is up, and how long do you leave it? The time l tried with McNet seam grip it I gave it what I thought was enough time to cure, but it was still tacky enough to totally make a mess with the fabric creating and sticking all over the place. I'd like to know a good way that works.

My Hillebergs I've never bothered, and they never leaked anyway so no reason to do it. As the seams start to pull with age they might start letting something in, but until they do I won't bother.

My Saunders tents I did back in the day, can't remember the exact product but just went in to Tiso and bought a tube of seam sealer... Rubbed it in with my fingers, left it to dry, it did.

Note that for Silnylon flys you'll need a silicone specific product. Beyond that I'm afarid I'll have to leave you at the mercy of the Interweb, but there's usually blogs and videos for this sort of thing.

Thanks for your reply, all of my tents so far have been pu coated, so I'm probably best searching t'web as you suggest.

That's odd, one of the big reasons to use PU rather than silicone on a fly is because it's easy to use seam tape, and if they're taped there should be no need to seal them.
Silicone is too slippy for most seam taping processes (Lightwave and Vau De claim they've cracked it) so that's why they might need sealing, though a well made seam on a fly can be effectively rainproof.

Pete.

pjclinch wrote: ↑25 Feb 2022, 7:14am That's odd, one of the big reasons to use PU rather than silicone on a fly is because it's easy to use seam tape, and if they're taped there should be no need to seal them.
Silicone is too slippy for most seam taping processes (Lightwave and Vau De claim they've cracked it) so that's why they might need sealing, though a well made seam on a fly can be effectively rainproof.

Pete.

This tent (Vango Banshee 200) was seam taped, but the tape was starting to come away in places after a few years of use and was letting some water in. I thought that sealing goo from a tube would be better than trying to remove and retape, or than trying to tape over the existing taped seams. I gave it as long to dry as I could with the tent set up (don't have a garden) but maybe it needed longer and/or warmer temperature, or I used too much. In any case the sealant felt dry and not tacky but must have been because the seams stuck to each other and trying to separate them pulled some of the PU coating off.

Only 2000mm HH on my tent fly (7k on the groundsheet), but zero water problems with it so far. HH seems less important than ventilation, stretching and strength in high winds - and weight, to some of us. Anything sold as a tent by a decent brand ought to be pretty much waterproof.

As the OP, I thought some might be interested in my final decision. We ended up going with a Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL 3 bike packing. Bit of a mouthful!

HH is only 1200mm. However having watched one ‘in action’ in very wet Swedish conditions I was persuaded. Although he reviewer and his daughter had some gripes, none were concerning the waterproofing of the tent.

We also looked at the MSR Hubba range but the internal size of the Big Agnes was better and better use made of the size. Coupled with a clever pack size with a nice short set of poles, we were sold. And only 1,6kg.

You’ll be I suggest that you try out the tent in yours or someone’s garden in heavy rain before an expedition!