War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

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UpWrong
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by UpWrong »

I highly recommend watching "Putin vs The West" on iplayer, https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/ ... s-the-west

Production started before Russia invaded, and it's a veritable list of Who's who that they interviewed. It paints a good picture of the highest level diplomacy. There are many jaw dropping moments.
mattheus
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by mattheus »

On a similar note:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... to-dnieper

Mike Palin travels around East-ish 2007 Europe. Includes a train crossing into Ukraine (at which point they have to switch the rolling-gear/bogies to match the Russian track gauge, while the passengers gently sleep).

Fun to see Lviv back in the Good Old Days ...
Jdsk
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 6:29pm
Psamathe wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 6:21pm On the radio this morning was a brief bit saying Turkey, despite agreeing has suddenly shown "questions". It reported Erdoğan has now said that the Turkish Parliament might not agree to Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
The timeline so far:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland–N ... pplication
Finland joined on 4 April.

Timeline for Sweden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden–NA ... Membership

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by Cowsham »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Apr 2023, 11:41am
Jdsk wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 6:29pm
Psamathe wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 6:21pm On the radio this morning was a brief bit saying Turkey, despite agreeing has suddenly shown "questions". It reported Erdoğan has now said that the Turkish Parliament might not agree to Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
The timeline so far:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland–N ... pplication
Finland joined on 4 April.

Timeline for Sweden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden–NA ... Membership

Jonathan
Watched that Jon in the stark realization this is a bit of history being made. Didn't really expect it either but I think it's the right move. Wondered what Vorpal and Jon in Sweden think of this.
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Jdsk
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by Jdsk »

Cowsham wrote: 8 Apr 2023, 12:02pm
Jdsk wrote: 8 Apr 2023, 11:41am
Jdsk wrote: 5 Jul 2022, 6:29pm The timeline so far:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland–N ... pplication
Finland joined on 4 April.

Timeline for Sweden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden–NA ... Membership
Watched that Jon in the stark realization this is a bit of history being made. Didn't really expect it either but I think it's the right move. Wondered what Vorpal and Jon in Sweden think of this.
RUSI interactive map: "UK defence and security relationships across Europe":
https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/p ... oss-europe
(On my Mac it works in Chrome but not in Safari).

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Cowsham
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by Cowsham »

Seems OK on my android phone too.
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briansnail
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by briansnail »

1- Lots of Russian mafia are running unsafe illegal oil sanctions busting tankers.They pay dirt wages to the crews.These US and European navies should board check and take the ships and oil.

2-We should boycott COMPANIES that sponsor Athletic events which allow Russians even if neutral to participate.This includes the Olympics.

3- We should avoid tourism in countries that support Russia and airlines that fly into Russia.

I this sounds harsh both Russians and Ukrainians are dying in thousands for a war only Putin wants.The Ukrainians have lost houses power and food .We ave a moral duty.It could be us.
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pete75
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by pete75 »

briansnail wrote: 8 Apr 2023, 3:10pm 1- Lots of Russian mafia are running unsafe illegal oil sanctions busting tankers. They pay dirt wages to the crews.These US and European navies should board check and take the ships and oil.

2-We should boycott COMPANIES that sponsor Athletic events which allow Russians even if neutral to participate.This includes the Olympics.

3- We should avoid tourism in countries that support Russia and airlines that fly into Russia.

I this sounds harsh both Russians and Ukrainians are dying in thousands for a war only Putin wants.The Ukrainians have lost houses power and food .We ave a moral duty.It could be us.
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Dirt wages to their crews - are you sure it's not P&O running them?
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Mick F
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by Mick F »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Apr 2023, 12:06pm (On my Mac it works in Chrome but not in Safari).
You have the wrong Mac then.
Mick F. Cornwall
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horizon
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by horizon »

jois wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 5:16pm It's significant as the ukrain joining NATO is what half the war is about in the first place. The other half is about the ukrain joining European Union, they want the Ukrainian grain harvests and so do Russia

NATO is very much in this war, just with out troops on the ground
If NATO hadn't existed, Putin would have invaded Ukraine. If the EU hadn't existed, Putin would have invaded Ukraine. If Ukraine grew potatoes, not wheat, Putin would have invaded Ukraine. If the United States didn't exist, Putin might not have invaded Ukraine, but probably would have done.

If the Soviet Union, on the other hand, did exist, Putin would not have invaded Ukraine.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Carlton green
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by Carlton green »

horizon wrote: 8 Apr 2023, 9:45pm
jois wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 5:16pm It's significant as the ukrain joining NATO is what half the war is about in the first place. The other half is about the ukrain joining European Union, they want the Ukrainian grain harvests and so do Russia

NATO is very much in this war, just with out troops on the ground
If NATO hadn't existed, Putin would have invaded Ukraine. If the EU hadn't existed, Putin would have invaded Ukraine. If Ukraine grew potatoes, not wheat, Putin would have invaded Ukraine. If the United States didn't exist, Putin might not have invaded Ukraine, but probably would have done.

If the Soviet Union, on the other hand, did exist, Putin would not have invaded Ukraine.
That’s about right, or should that be I agree. If the Soviet Union (still) existed then Poland and a big chunk of Germany would either be in that Union or about to rejoin it - whether they liked that or not.

Putin will fight ‘till either he’s deposed or he has no troops left to fight with; sad, very sad, there’s going to be a lot more death and destruction yet. What we in the West enjoy as democracy is flawed, badly flawed, but it’s still far better than what the poor Russians have … one can but feel enormous sorrow for all of the people suffering due to one man’s iron grip and misguided ideas.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
briansnail
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by briansnail »

o the good quote about P and O running the tankers.Even they were disgusted with the wages the Russian mafia are paying oil tanker crews on ships with no insurance.
Its time now if Trump wins next year( not unilkely) Ukraine has no chance.They will cut down as much as possible to help Ukraine.Trump will hinder NATO.
If Russia wins we in the free world should refuse to recognize "new borders" .Putin has threatened the UK.Most Russians and ALL Ukranians just want peace.
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reohn2
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by reohn2 »

briansnail wrote: 14 Apr 2023, 4:07pm o the good quote about P and O running the tankers.Even they were disgusted with the wages the Russian mafia are paying oil tanker crews on ships with no insurance.
Its time now if Trump wins next year( not unilkely) Ukraine has no chance.They will cut down as much as possible to help Ukraine.Trump will hinder NATO.
If Russia wins we in the free world should refuse to recognize "new borders" .Putin has threatened the UK.Most Russians and ALL Ukranians just want peace.
********************************
I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage
My bold.
There'll be no peace until Russia is defeated in the Ukraine.
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pete75
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by pete75 »

reohn2 wrote: 14 Apr 2023, 4:21pm
briansnail wrote: 14 Apr 2023, 4:07pm o the good quote about P and O running the tankers.Even they were disgusted with the wages the Russian mafia are paying oil tanker crews on ships with no insurance.
Its time now if Trump wins next year( not unilkely) Ukraine has no chance.They will cut down as much as possible to help Ukraine.Trump will hinder NATO.
If Russia wins we in the free world should refuse to recognize "new borders" .Putin has threatened the UK.Most Russians and ALL Ukranians just want peace.
********************************
I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage
My bold.
There'll be no peace until Russia is defeated in the Ukraine.
And it won't end there. If the Ukrainians win there'll likely be extreme measures against the ethnic Russian population of the country. Russia would be in no position to stop it and the Russia hating nations of the west will cheer it on and even give them the weapons to do it. Then when Russia regroups,re-equips and rethinks they'll want to punish the Ukrainians,so it'll start all over again.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pwa
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Re: War on Our Doorstep: How do we respond?

Post by pwa »

pete75 wrote: 15 Apr 2023, 8:40am
reohn2 wrote: 14 Apr 2023, 4:21pm
briansnail wrote: 14 Apr 2023, 4:07pm o the good quote about P and O running the tankers.Even they were disgusted with the wages the Russian mafia are paying oil tanker crews on ships with no insurance.
Its time now if Trump wins next year( not unilkely) Ukraine has no chance.They will cut down as much as possible to help Ukraine.Trump will hinder NATO.
If Russia wins we in the free world should refuse to recognize "new borders" .Putin has threatened the UK.Most Russians and ALL Ukranians just want peace.
********************************
I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage
My bold.
There'll be no peace until Russia is defeated in the Ukraine.
And it won't end there. If the Ukrainians win there'll likely be extreme measures against the ethnic Russian population of the country. Russia would be in no position to stop it and the Russia hating nations of the west will cheer it on and even give them the weapons to do it. Then when Russia regroups,re-equips and rethinks they'll want to punish the Ukrainians,so it'll start all over again.
That won't be allowed to happen because a Ukraine free of Russian forces will be awash with Western journalists poking cameras into every crevice. And Ukraine will be propped up by the USA, UK, France, Germany, Poland, etc, and very wary of any actions that might upset their benefactors. Having the image of the underdog being threatened by the barbarians will be essential to Ukraine's survival. Allowing a pogrom to happen would be something that would weaken the government in Kiev, and they will know that.
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