Minister for Brexit Opportunities

[Cugel]

Same thing!....28,526 "Illegal Migrants" were detected arriving on small boats in 2021

Not the same thing, but I understand how important it is to you that you never let facts get in the way of your narrative. After all, if you did, the narrative would disappear like a fart in the wind.

When out on the bicycle - and especially after consuming something that's gone off a bit - I find that the wind of my passage (so to speak) along the lanes cannot always disperse the methane I attempt to leave, er, behind. Sometimes there's a following wind but mostly its due to the amazing efficiency of my gut at separating the nutrition from the waste gases. This process tends to produce a continuous albeit sporadic emission.

When cycling with others, this syndrome can result in an ejection from the group; or being sent to the back, at the very least, where one goes unnoticed. The group is unsympathetic to the notion of, "It musta been that pie I et".

This gives a clue to the methodology employed by a certain ilk of fact-free poster who has perhaps et a Daily Hate Mail pie (or worse) in that, to process his alternative facts, he is compelled to emit a continuous stream of alternativefactphart all with the same noticeable pong! Send the rascal to the back of the forum, I say. It's almost certainly a mistake to try to "cycle alongside of him" engaging in his "conversation". You will be gassed with badly-digested Hate Mail stuff and feel quite queasy!

Cugel

[Cyclo2022]

Same thing!....28,526 "Illegal Migrants" were detected arriving on small boats in 2021

Not the same thing, but I understand how important it is to you that you never let facts get in the way of your narrative. After all, if you did, the narrative would disappear like a fart in the wind.

Lol.....I just know that you don't like to be made aware of the truth but no matter how you want to twist the truth it will always come out as 28,526 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS arrived in the UK on small boats in 2021....And that is from Migration Watch who actually estimated less than the official Home Office figures. But obviously you know better than the experts

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2 ... four-years

[Nearholmer]

MigrationWatch is a lobby group with a very clear “angle” on the subject, so their choice of language is doubtless dictated by that. It isn’t the language used in official government reports, and for good reason.

None of which really has anything to do with the Minister for Brexit opportunities, unless you think he’s acting as a people trafficker in his spare time.

[Cyclo2022]

MigrationWatch is a lobby group with a very clear “angle” on the subject, so their choice of language is doubtless dictated by that. It isn’t the language used in official government reports, and for good reason.

None of which really has anything to do with the Minister for Brexit opportunities, unless you think he’s acting as a people trafficker in his spare time.

The original source that I linked was a Home Office figure, and Migration Watch actually estimated it a bit lower. Whichever way you look at it the figure is over 28,000

[Nearholmer]

Nobody is arguing that c28k people didn’t wash up on our shores in small boats last year; I pointed that out myself a few posts back.

What people, me included, are trying to get you to understand is that “irregular migrant” and “illegal migrant” are not the same thing. It is not a criminal offence to migrate outside of regular process, the UN very strongly advises against making it a criminal offence, for good reasons, and, once processed, many of those who arrive irregularly are found to have a right to be here.

Labelling people “illegal” wouldn’t solve the challenge of how to deal humanely with the hugely complex issues of refugee migration.

Do you believe that it is something that should be dealt with humanely?

[Mike Sales]

The original source that I linked was a Home Office figure, and Migration Watch actually estimated it a bit lower. Whichever way you look at it the figure is over 28,000

Being driven out of your home and country by famine, war or persecution is a truly miserable fate. Many people have to endure life in camps indefinitely.

The countries accomodating many refugees:-

1. Lebanon – 19.5 per cent of the total population

Lebanon, with a population of 6.8 million, is currently hosting an estimated 1.5 million refugees from Syria. The real number is probably even higher because the national authorities demanded that the UN refugee agency (UNHCR) stop the registration of new refugees in 2015. In addition, hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees live in the country.

2. Jordan – 10.5 per cent

Jordan has received over one million refugees in the last ten years. The vast majority were fleeing neighbouring Syria. While a comparatively small number have since decided to return to Syria or have been able to resettle in other countries, there are still more than 660,000 Syrian refugees registered with the UN refugee agency living in Jordan today.

4. Turkey – 5.0 per cent

Turkey has received more refugees than any other country since 2011 – as many as 4.3 million. Turkey is a large and populous country and is better equipped to handle the challenge than, for example, Lebanon. Nevertheless, it is challenging to provide protection to such a large number of people within a few short years.

5. Liberia – 4.1 per cent

Liberia is another country that has shown great hospitality to displaced people. It has received 212,000 refugees, even while the country itself was in a difficult situation.

Liberia went through a long and bloody civil war just a few years before it opened its doors to refugees from the Ivory Coast. It was also hit hard by Ebola, which meant that refugees from the neighbouring country could not return home as quickly as the UN refugee agency had planned.

The site I got these figures from goes on. This is just a taste of misery which we may find difficult to imagine.

https://www.nrc.no/perspectives/2020/th ... -refugees/

To get in a moral panic about 28.000 a year is pitiful. There is a lot of human suffering going on, and surely we can help a little.
I can understand the selfishness which informs this panic, but I find it difficult to excuse.

[Cyclo2022]

Nobody is arguing that c28k people didn’t wash up on our shores in small boats last year; I pointed that out myself a few posts back.

What people, me included, are trying to get you to understand is that “irregular migrant” and “illegal migrant” are not the same thing. It is not a criminal offence to migrate outside of regular process, the UN very strongly advises against making it a criminal offence, for good reasons, and, once processed, many of those who arrive irregularly are found to have a right to be here.

Labelling people “illegal” wouldn’t solve the challenge of how to deal humanely with the hugely complex issues of refugee migration.

Do you believe that it is something that should be dealt with humanely?

What is the meaning of irregular migration?
Irregular migration – Movement of persons that takes place outside the laws, regulations, or international agreements governing the entry into or exit from the State of origin, transit or destination......In simple terms "Illegal"....Amen!

[Mike Sales]

Nobody is arguing that c28k people didn’t wash up on our shores in small boats last year; I pointed that out myself a few posts back.

What people, me included, are trying to get you to understand is that “irregular migrant” and “illegal migrant” are not the same thing. It is not a criminal offence to migrate outside of regular process, the UN very strongly advises against making it a criminal offence, for good reasons, and, once processed, many of those who arrive irregularly are found to have a right to be here.

Labelling people “illegal” wouldn’t solve the challenge of how to deal humanely with the hugely complex issues of refugee migration.

Do you believe that it is something that should be dealt with humanely?

What is the meaning of irregular migration?
Irregular migration – Movement of persons that takes place outside the laws, regulations, or international agreements governing the entry into or exit from the State of origin, transit or destination......In simple terms "Illegal"....Amen!
[/quote]

It is hard to be legal immigrant because we have set up the system in that way.

The leaked Home Office document detailing the inherent racism of British immigration policy from 1950 to 1981 is shameful (Windrush scandal caused by ‘30 years of racist immigration laws’ – report, 29 May). However, it will surprise no one familiar with postwar immigration policy. There is, for example, at least one surprisingly explicit admission of racism that has been in the public domain for more than 50 years, and which demonstrates the peculiar ability for British racism to hide in plain sight.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... o-surprise

How does a persecuted person manage to apply to the British consulate in their own country?

Standing on the petty legalities in the face of so much suffering is inhuman.
The very few who reach Britain illegally are the most desperate and enterprising.

Perhaps you would like to build a "beautiful wall" or a fence? Or turn them back midchannel?

[Nearholmer]

Cyclo

I conclude from your answer, which skips over the question I asked about dealing with a complex issue humanely, that you have no interest in acting humanely.

Says it all really.

Kevin

[Cyclo2022]

Cyclo

I conclude from your answer, which skips over the question I asked about dealing with a complex issue humanely, that you have no interest in acting humanely.

Says it all really.

Kevin

Well I am glad that you now understand that an irregular migrant is an illegal one, we finally got there!
And to answer your other point, I am humane and believe that genuine refugees who are escaping from conflict or oppression should be helped by going through the proper legal process.
But Economic migrants who are mainly young men like the ones crossing the Channel in dinghies should not be allowed to enter the country.
And that is where I will leave it, as there is nothing more to see here.

[pete75]

They chose this guy who sleeps when he should be working as Minister for Brexit Opportunities. As there aren't any he'll have nowt to do so the job won't disturb his slumbers. A perfect match of man and job.

[Nearholmer]

Well I am glad that you now understand that an irregular migrant is an illegal one, we finally got there!

Oh, but we didn’t, because the two are not the same, unless a state decides to go against the strong advice of the UN, and possibly against international law (I don’t think that question has been tested yet), and make the two the same.

Label and stigmatise people as you will; it won’t make the complex issue of people being displaced by war, terror and persecution go away.

And, do you think that if, next year say, not one single person washed up in a small boat all the problems that this country has would be solved? They wouldn’t. The irregular migration fetish is just like the EU fetish, a way of blaming foreigners for problems that we made, and only we can solve.

[Mike Sales]

But Economic migrants who are mainly young men like the ones crossing the Channel in dinghies should not be allowed to enter the country.
And that is where I will leave it, as there is nothing more to see here.

The number of unaccompanied child refugees crossing the Channel is up three and a half times over last year, data obtained by The Times shows.

Babies and small children are among latest group of 30 migrants to make it across the Channel as Dominic Raab admits only hundreds are likely to be sent to Rwanda for processing each year

A child about four was carried off Border Force cutter HMS Searcher fast asleep

Babies wrapped in blankets were carried to safety as more people arrived in Kent after crossing the English Channel.

Several children, including some who appeared to be only a few weeks or months old and others who were too young to walk, were among the large numbers of people seen being brought ashore in Dover on Tuesday.

These are desperate people looking for a better life in a country they believe will give them that.
The young men probably want to bring their families to Britain too.
They are not a |"swarm of cockroaches".

[Jdsk]

MigrationWatch is a lobby group with a very clear “angle” on the subject, so their choice of language is doubtless dictated by that. It isn’t the language used in official government reports, and for good reason.

Their data and their presentation of data are often misleading. And when it has been shown to be wrong they don't always correct it.

I don't consider them a reliable source.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

What is the meaning of irregular migration?
Irregular migration – Movement of persons that takes place outside the laws, regulations, or international agreements governing the entry into or exit from the State of origin, transit or destination......In simple terms "Illegal"....Amen!

Outside in this description doesn't mean what you think it means.

I live in England and don't work in international shipping. My actions are outside the domestic law of Australia and outside international maritime trade law. Those laws don't apply to me, but I'm not in breach of them and my actions aren't illegal.

That description might be better worded as not covered by.

Jonathan