Cycling UK Forum

reohn2 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 8:49am

Mick F wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 8:42am I'm saying - badly perhaps? - that if one of the side effects of a medication is an addiction or at least a liking, it's an issue that I have never fully understood before.

If the addicted medication isn't doing the patient any good then it's a bad addiction,but if being without the addicted medication means the illness isn't cured or the symptoms are far worse then the addiction is a necessity for a better quality of life.

simonineaston wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 9:00am There's all sorts of addictions. And then there's habits. Addiction might suggest you can't stop.
But on the other hand, if a given medication is working for you, has few, if any, side effects and you come to depend on it to make your life a little better, then what would be the point in stopping taking it? You're not addicted, but rather, you are in the habit of taking it.

I think that I see what you both mean. But, as above, the term addiction just gets in the way. I'd bet that rewriting both of those without using it would get the points across better...

Jonathan

Mick F wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 4:50pmI'm saying that the meds I'm on now have given me an insight to how people can be dependent on medication.

Yes: the term dependency often works better than addiction. Differentiating between physical dependency and psychological dependency also helps.

Jonathan

I'd bet that rewriting both of those without using it would get the points across better...

I'm liking that idea, Jonathan. To apply the term 'addiction' to a situation where there are mainly good outcomes is worrying too much. Best to focus simply of the Good Outcomes. ps I'm in a similar situation to Mick in that I'm hypertensive and have recently been prescribed medication and so I've been thinking about how I'm going to feel about this, long-term.
And of course one thing we can all agree on that makes us feel better is a nice long bicycle ride!

Jdsk wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 11:15am

Mick F wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 4:50pmI'm saying that the meds I'm on now have given me an insight to how people can be dependent on medication.

Yes: the term dependency often works better than addiction. Differentiating between physical dependency and psychological dependency also helps.

Jonathan

Yep,a better way of expressing it.

I'm on tablets for both blood pressure and joint pain.
Do I "need" to take them:- NO
Do I "like" to take them:- YES
Because if I don't take them my quality of life goes down, head aches and I cannot cycle as far.

Luck ..........

I would not refer to a drug which improves quality of life, or extends life, as may be the case for blood pressure medications as addictive. I'm not even convinced that dependency is applicable, either. Dependence is a term used to describe use of substances that continues even when significant problems related to their use have developed.

There is quite a gray area where some medications are concerned, and I suppose the best way to say it is an acceptable dependence. People, for example, who have chronic pain may become physically addicted to pain medication. But living with the problems or addiction may be considered less problematic than the chronic pain.

Using a drug long term that does improve quality of life or extend longevity is simply a treatment. If there are not significant associated problems, such as addiction, then no dependency.

Liking something isn't an addiction. Do you like blueberries? How about fruit? Is the need to have your '5 a day' an addiction? Or is it simply that our bodies require certain nutrients. Some of us don't make all of those nutrients correctly, or cannot process them in food as well as others. I have a friend who cannot absorb iron correctly, and needs about 3X the intake of other people, just to get enough. They take supplements. Are they addicted? Of course not. Or bodies need iron. I don't see that it is substantially different with many treatments and medications.

Tigerbiten wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:25pm I'm on tablets for both blood pressure and joint pain.
Do I "need" to take them:- NO
Do I "like" to take them:- YES
Because if I don't take them my quality of life goes down, head aches and I cannot cycle as far.

With treatment for high blood pressure there's another outcome: reduced risk of cardiovascular disease. How would you score that on need/ like?

Thanks

Jonathan

Vorpal wrote: ↑23 Feb 2022, 12:58pm I would not refer to a drug which improves quality of life, or extends life, as may be the case for blood pressure medications as addictive. I'm not even convinced that dependency is applicable, either.

I read the OP's concerns as being about taking a drug that makes him feel better *regardless of any effects on blood pressure/reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease/extending life.

Mick F wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 4:14pmThe one's I'm on now seem wonderful.

Mick F wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 4:14pmIs this a slippery slope that some people go down?

Jonathan

* Although it might not be regardless. That feeling wonderful may well be related to his particular type of labile hypertension and this particular drug.

Blood pressure medication, although beneficial to a lot of people, it's important to realise other therapies are also available. My GP will recommend diet change, weight loss, intermittent fasting and exercise for example over pre diabetes medication. I'm very sceptical of statins and the like, and although I have few health issues at the moment (touch wood) I'd be very wary if going down a medication only route.

For various and varied terrible health problems I take a great number of tablets daily.
I take 9 differing in the morning. I take 2 the same halfway through the day and 8 different in the evening. Occasionally the evening supply increases to 2 extra. 6 of these tablets (all the same variety) are 'A' Class and addictive. I can only collect this particular tablet once Monthly whereas the others are bulk collected three monthly.
The only reason I am actually writing this is because I wish to make my own point. If I stop taking all of these I will die probably within a week. If I stop taking let me say 50% of them I will be unwell and unable to do much. If I stop taking around 25% of them I would carry on but with a more restricted life.
I have already had to give up cycling (a lifetime's hobby) and am struggling with Camping even though I can now use either my Motorcycle or car.
So, I say stuff anyone who complains about medication and any side effects because in all likelihood if as I am, you take a multitude then if you do not take medication, you would very likely succumb!
Happy days.....

Slowtwitch wrote: ↑24 Feb 2022, 8:14am Blood pressure medication, although beneficial to a lot of people, it's important to realise other therapies are also available. My GP will recommend diet change, weight loss, intermittent fasting and exercise for example over pre diabetes medication. I'm very sceptical of statins and the like, and although I have few health issues at the moment (touch wood) I'd be very wary if going down a medication only route.

Medication only route for anything? Some conditions are not treatable by other means. Some conditions are treatable mainly by a combination of diet and medication.

And then there are some things that are classed as medication, but actually are a replacement for or supplement to something someone's body may not produce, or may not produce correctly. For example treatment of Hypopituitarism may require supplemental hormones.

Would prescriptions of those count as medication only route? and why should anyone be skeptical of taking something their body does not produce, or does not produce enough of?

Vorpal wrote: ↑25 Feb 2022, 9:49am

Slowtwitch wrote: ↑24 Feb 2022, 8:14am Blood pressure medication, although beneficial to a lot of people, it's important to realise other therapies are also available. My GP will recommend diet change, weight loss, intermittent fasting and exercise for example over pre diabetes medication. I'm very sceptical of statins and the like, and although I have few health issues at the moment (touch wood) I'd be very wary if going down a medication only route.

Medication only route for anything? Some conditions are not treatable by other means. Some conditions are treatable mainly by a combination of diet and medication.

And then there are some things that are classed as medication, but actually are a replacement for or supplement to something someone's body may not produce, or may not produce correctly. For example treatment of Hypopituitarism may require supplemental hormones.

Would prescriptions of those count as medication only route? and why should anyone be skeptical of taking something their body does not produce, or does not produce enough of?

I am mainly sceptical of 'magic bullet' preemptive medicines like statins. There are conditions like diabetes of course, where intervention to keep on living is essential. The jury is out in several countries over the effectiveness of statins and many other preventative drugs . I have never been one for taking medicines full stop, I'm a firm believer in the body's ability to heal itself. And this in the face of several family members who have died of cancer and heart disease. My brother died of cancer 3 years ago, and for all the treatment and medication he took I doubt it prolonged his life by a single day. His suffering was very intense, for long, long periods until his death in 2019.

The misery of the dashed hopes doctors gave him was very hard to bear. Of course a lot of cancers and degenerative diseases are survivable, but its the quality of life afterwards that I'm sceptical of. And every medicine comes not only with benefits, but generally a long list of side effects, which may or may not be worth it in the long term.

I watched my own mother limp on in horrible pain and disability for two years after a massive heart attack, it was hard listening to her saying she couldn't go on, and 'wished I were dead', but such is the conundrum of modern medicine, and the enabling of people to live on well past their natural span by unnatural means.

Personally I'd be happy to have my three score and ten with no serious ailments and peg out in my own bed. To live on, with serious, debilitating illness, in pain and fear: its not my idea of living.

That's my take on it.

Over a year ago a consultant prescribed me medication and wrote to my GP asking he continue the medication until further notice. I took it but GP decided he "knew better" and was only prepared to prescribe half the dose the consultant specified. I checked with the consltant and it was interesting. Apparently half the dose is useless and has no effect on what he thought I might be suffering. But he did say that people don't need it forever but when it has had its desired effect they are scared about coming off the pills in case the condition returns so then the consultant switches them to half dse for a bit so they get confidence about no longer needing it. Not addiction nor dependence and normally without side effects just fear of condition returning.

Ian

Mick F wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 4:50pm ........ the meds I'm on now have given me an insight to how people can be dependent on medication. Never appreciated this issue before.

Mick F wrote: ↑22 Feb 2022, 6:37pmI don't actually need meds, just been prescribed them to help, but what they do is rather nice.

Quoting myself here, as an update.

The meds I was one (note the word "was") made me feel good, and I was temped to double up to two rather than one.
After ten days, I gave up with them as the previous couple of days I was feeling very lethargic and zombie-like. Knowing what I know now, had I doubled up the dose, it could have snapped me out of it ............... then what, tripled it?

Since stopping, I'm feeling "cold turkey" sort of thing. Tired, fractious, grumpy, lack of concentration etc. It was wearing off yesterday, but I still had to go to bed at 18:30 as I'd had enough. Hopefully, today, I'll be improving.

I'll be chatting to the doc tomorrow.

Good luck to you Mick. I hate taking any medication, and with my brief flirt with high blood pressure I was relieved that diet and the bike were just as good medicine as anything prescribed over the counter or from the doctor.

I sometimes think doctors don't really look at the whole patient, just the symptoms. Therein lies danger.