Alternatives to Shimano, from late '80s

[simonineaston]

Hi, I'm rebuilding a cycle dating from 1984. I want to use a freewheel hub, which I understand Shimano launched around 1987 and although I have nothing against Shimano, I'd like to look out for alternative good-quality products to put on the bike - for example I've found a suitable Royce bottom bracket. Can readers advise re alternatives to the Shimano hub that a) date from the late '80s / early '90s and b) equal in quality to Ultegra/Dura-Ace?

[tatanab]

Suntour had several good quality hubs for cassettes about this time. I do not know, but I doubt, that the spline arrangement is compatible with Shimano; and I expect that Suntour cassettes will be very rare and worn out by now. Take a look in https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/do ... rands.html for catalogues and also https://velobase.com/

[simonineaston]

Cheers ttn I've been reading the relevant Sheldon pages for background and it's kind-of tempting just to go with the line of least resistance ie Shimano, but all the same it'd be nice to find something different. SunRace (SunTour - were they the same company??) might be a possibility. I remember when their friction levers were all the rage. Thinking back to the early '80s, when most ordinary bikes were fitted with components of European origin, like Maillard, Mavic, Atom etc, it's easy to forget what a breath of fresh air the improved products from Japan were at the time!

[tatanab]

Early Campag 8 speed hubs were also around at that time. Same compatibility and dearth of sprockets apply. Make life easy - stick to freewheels then you have a multitude of hubs to choose from. Also you need to be aware the rear hub width your frame can accommodate. I have two frames from about 1990, one is 126 rear end and hence a 6 speed freewheel, the other is 130 with a cassette.

[mattsccm]

I think we are all pretty sure but let's clarify. You say a freewheel hub but then mention a 1987 launch. I suspect you mean a freehub not a freewheel meaning a screw on freewheel. Just being picky
I have a Suntour freehub rear hub and cassette.It is nicely made but most definately its own design and not Shimano compatible.
If you want no more than 7 sprockets why not stay freewheel and the choice is huge.

[simonineaston]

You say a freewheel hub but then mention a 1987 launch. I suspect you mean a freehub not a freewheel meaning a screw on freewheel. Just being picky

Not picky, just being accurate My fault for not reading back the post before hitting Submit.
My project bike dates from 1984 and is fitted with a Zeus rear hub and a freewheel! Unfortunately and predictably, the 2 middle cogs are worn. I guess I have a choice of keeping the old system and working on fixing the existing freewheel or replacing the hub, in which case it makes most sense to move to a freehub/cassette - at least from the pov of prcticality.

[Dayglo]

Suntour had by far and away the most elegant groupset at the time, the Superbe. Miles ahead of Shimano. I don't know what is availablity is like online, but it's probably not cheap.

Same goes for Galli, or Zeus. Campagnolo copies but at much keener prices. Zeus used a lot of titanium parts in this era, long before it became fashionable.

[MikeF]

You say a freewheel hub but then mention a 1987 launch. I suspect you mean a freehub not a freewheel meaning a screw on freewheel. Just being picky

Not picky, just being accurate My fault for not reading back the post before hitting Submit.
My project bike dates from 1984 and is fitted with a Zeus rear hub and a freewheel! Unfortunately and predictably, the 2 middle cogs are worn. I guess I have a choice of keeping the old system and working on fixing the existing freewheel or replacing the hub, in which case it makes most sense to move to a freehub/cassette - at least from the pov of prcticality.

I'm still not clear. I understand you have a Zeus rear hub and a ?Zeus? screw-on freewheel. You want to change the freewheel for a freehub, but the rear hub is not correct for that, so you are replacing that as well? Also, as others has mentioned, what is the spacing of the stays? What is the condition of the rim? If you replace the rear hub you will no doubt need new spokes as well. Is your plan an entire re-build of the rear wheel?
I would have thought the simplest thing would be just to replace the freewheel. What use do expect from the bike?

[PT1029]

Any screw on freewheel with the matching number of cogs will do to keep you running. Unless you go for an IRD freewheel, don't expect super quality these days.
If you want to keep it authentic, new/used but usable European/period Japanese freewhweels can be found at cycle jumbles/here/E bay.
If your original freewheel is Reginal/Maillard/Suntour (each sprocket fit mutually not interchangable) you might find some individual sprockets out there to replace your 2 worn ones. You have to do your on line homework as to which spockets are RH thread/LF thread/splined. Thread and spline sizes decrease as you move to the RH side of the freewheel body.

If you have a Regina freewheel with the 2 slots in a raised flange for the 2 pronged freewheel remover to slot into, using a normal 2 pronge remover usually shears off the raised ridge. NB Not all 2 prong removers have the same sized prongs, you need the correct sized prongs, particularly for Regina. Best to use a Durace freewheel remover for Regina which encases the raised flange to stop it shearing off - see here for an example :-
https://bicyclebuysell.com/item/499140/ ... ls-vintage.
Modern Park Tool removers tend to be no use. For a 2 prong remover to work, it needs clamping/bolting to the wheel axle to stop the prongs slipping out. Park Tool ones are too long to do this (mostly), older removers are much shorter.

If you are simply replacing sprockets, best to leave the freewheel on the hub - unless you need to remove LH threaded lower sprockets (which I think is a preserve of Regina only).

If you dismantle the freewheel at some point, the lock ring is LH thread (unless Sun Tour Ultra 6 - 7, in which case it is a RH thread with lock ring).

[Dayglo]

You say a freewheel hub but then mention a 1987 launch. I suspect you mean a freehub not a freewheel meaning a screw on freewheel. Just being picky

Not picky, just being accurate My fault for not reading back the post before hitting Submit.
My project bike dates from 1984 and is fitted with a Zeus rear hub and a freewheel! Unfortunately and predictably, the 2 middle cogs are worn. I guess I have a choice of keeping the old system and working on fixing the existing freewheel or replacing the hub, in which case it makes most sense to move to a freehub/cassette - at least from the pov of prcticality.

I'm still not clear. I understand you have a Zeus rear hub and a ?Zeus? screw-on freewheel. You want to change the freewheel for a freehub, but the rear hub is not correct for that, so you are replacing that as well? Also, as others has mentioned, what is the spacing of the stays? What is the condition of the rim? If you replace the rear hub you will no doubt need new spokes as well. Is your plan an entire re-build of the rear wheel?
I would have thought the simplest thing would be just to replace the freewheel. What use do expect from the bike?

An old frame can be easily 'sprung' from 126mm to 130mm, using an old spindle, or if you're brave enough, two strong arms I've done this many times to bring an old frame into the 21st century.

[Polkey]

I used Sachs New Success in the early 90s which was very high quality, not the cheapest option if you search for it now though.

[simonineaston]

In the end, I've plumped for a SunTour Cyclone 7000, which Mike of Disraeli Gears is modestly complimentary about... (here)
The bike in question already has a suitable bar-mounted SunTour friction lever. I'm quite looking forward to a 7 speed non-indexing transmission for a round town bike.

screenshot of rear mech.

oh and thanks to pt1029 for an interesting post about keeping older freewheels going - I may have to do just that.

[iandusud]

In the end, I've plumped for a SunTour Cyclone 7000, which Mike of Disraeli Gears is modestly complimentary about... (here)
The bike in question already has a suitable bar-mounted SunTour friction lever. I'm quite looking forward to a 7 speed non-indexing transmission for a round town bike. Screenshot 2022-03-15 at 21.51.06.pngoh and thanks to pt1029 for an interesting post about keeping older freewheels going - I may have to do just that.

I have one of those on my 1988 Moulton Jubilee. Still going strong. I've stripped it a few times and it could do with new jockey wheels but is as solid as ever.

[simonineaston]

That fits with my experience of the '84 AM I just bought. It had a Cyclone Mk11, badly worn but still working OK, just... The 7000 was bought the other day - for 15 quid! - to replace it. The transmission on the very tatty AM was a grease-fest bundle, consisting of the original Regina-based freewheel / Cyclone (with very round pullies, all the teeth having worn away years ago...) and a very oily chain. Somehow, it still manages to work, providing I don't put too much oomph into pedalling!
I'm replacing the mech. and continuing with the existing freewheel / chain combo. while I think about what to do next. Realistically, I imagine that I'm looking at building up a pair of new wheels and in doing so, moving to a Shimano-type cassette-based system. I haven't dared contact the Moulton factory for cassette options yet, for fear my bank manager will have a heart attack...

[iandusud]

That fits with my experience of the '84 AM I just bought. It had a Cyclone Mk11, badly worn but still working OK, just... The 7000 was bought the other day - for 15 quid! - to replace it. The transmission on the very tatty AM was a grease-fest bundle, consisting of the original Regina-based freewheel / Cyclone (with very round pullies, all the teeth having worn away years ago...) and a very oily chain. Somehow, it still manages to work, providing I don't put too much oomph into pedalling!
I'm replacing the mech. and continuing with the existing freewheel / chain combo. while I think about what to do next. Realistically, I imagine that I'm looking at building up a pair of new wheels and in doing so, moving to a Shimano-type cassette-based system. I haven't dared contact the Moulton factory for cassette options yet, for fear my bank manager will have a heart attack...

Do you know how high a top gear you need. I have replaced the rear hub on my wife's AM with a cassette hub and fitted an 11-28 8 speed cassette. this gives an 81" top gear which is easily enough for her needs. This also has the advantage of 8 gears from 11-28 rather than 6, so closer ratios. I still use a Moulton 9-11-13 cluster on a Suntour Winner Pro freewheel but to be perfectly honest I could live with an 81" top gear and I'm not weak, it's just that the only circumstances I ever use a gear higher than that is when I could freewheel.