toe clips

[MartinS]

Many thanks for all your replies - MKS adjustable go down to 46mm against my current 65mm which should be fine.
I will find out soon so please close this thread as I am not sure how to..................

[thirdcrank]

There's no way of closing it. If you don't want further notifications when somebody posts, unsubscribe if you have subscribed to it. Otherwise, just forget about it and if it touches on something helpful to others they may post. And it's always vulnerable to those with nothing better to do than resurrecting old posts

[531colin]

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... -position/

Thats the full 9 yards from Steve Hogg on the subject of where your foot should be relative to the pedal spindle.

Always in front of the pedal spindle, at varying distances depending on shoe size, pedalling technique (heel dropper Vs. toe dipper) and type of riding.

I always start out with the intention of following his advice, but unless you can take an X ray of your foot wearing your cleated shoes, there is still a lot of guesswork around where the cleat is relative to the anatomy of your foot. Then theres different bikes for different rides, several pairs of shoes/boots......I always come back to "does it feel right?" And at the "turn of the year" when I get out the winter or summer bikes, there is always a burst of tinkering, because it "feels different" to the bike I'm putting away.....

But thanks to Steve I stopped aiming for "ball of foot over pedal spindle" and my cleats have gone further back as I get older.

A word of warning....changing cleat position alters how you use the muscle groups which propel your bike.
Move the cleats back, and you load your quads and spare your hamstrings. (Move the saddle back, and you load your hamstrings and spare your quads)......at least, thats what I found, I have no idea why it works out like that, but it did for me anyway.
Its touched on here https://neillsbikefit.com.au/?page_id=364....but then he reproduces that B. awful Catherine-wheel diagram of which muscles fire when during the pedal stroke. You only have to rest your hand on your thigh as you ride to know that the hamstrings are involved with the majority of the stroke, not a minority. Neil says as much himself in a different bit of the article.

I agree that you should fix your foot position to ride, not to eliminate overlap. I don't enjoy toe overlap, particularly off road negotiating obstacles, but on road a touch of overlap isn't a problem. And if it is TO YOU, sell the bike and buy one with longer front centre so you can set your cleats right without overlap.

[531colin]

............. And it's always vulnerable to those with nothing better to do than resurrecting old posts

......and those of us who are sufficiently arrogant to think we have something useful to say......

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I fear your theory re adjustable clips may be wide of the mark.
My understanding is the idea is to get the Centre of the ball of the foot directly above the pedal axle for optimum
application of pressure.

To be safe and remain as symptom free as possible, its recommended that you have the ball of foot In front of the pedal spindle by say 8-12 mm! See below image-

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... -position/
I see 531colin got there first

I.M.O. you will eliminate much pain and frustration if you adopt this method, leave the rest to the pro track riders
Like saddle position, do not move saddle to get better reach to handlebars!

[Bmblbzzz]

Does any one know if you can buy and from whom shorter toe clips? In the dim and distant past you could buy adjustable ones which if you have small feet were ideal.
I have to confess that I only ask because I recently purchased a second bike with choice being limited at the time and, on fitting mudguards, it has toe overlap - which I should have checked!

So,let me get this right.With your foot in its normal position,there is mudguard overlap and your intention is to shove it rearwards with smaller toeclips.My thoughts are you might be inviting knee/lower leg problems.Many people on this forum ,including me,have ridden with toe overlap for many years quite happily.It becomes automatic, whilst turning a sharp/slow corner, to have the correct pedal out of the way .Better this than an unnatural foot position is my advice.

Or it could be that Martin's foot in its natural position has no overlap, but the addition of a toe clip, which is substantially longer than his foot, causes the overlap.

[JohnW]

Hi,

I fear your theory re adjustable clips may be wide of the mark.
My understanding is the idea is to get the Centre of the ball of the foot directly above the pedal axle for optimum
application of pressure.

To be safe and remain as symptom free as possible, its recommended that you have the ball of foot In front of the pedal spindle by say 8-12 mm! See below image-
2022-03-16_154433.jpg
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... -position/
I see 531colin got there first

I.M.O. you will eliminate much pain and frustration if you adopt this method, leave the rest to the pro track riders
Like saddle position, do not move saddle to get better reach to handlebars!

Ah - well - let's go one further.
Wisdom published in some places, and often repeated, also says that the ball of the foot should be vertically below the knee.
Yes, but where in the knee?
One answer to that - that I've seen in print (but not on this forum) - is that the fulcrum/pivot point of those joints should be vertically above/below each other.
How does one find them?
It really is a difficult one.
.

[MartinS]

I am ready to be convinced that standard toe clips sold in shops and provided on new bikes are correct for every shoe size from 6-14 but may well be after trying adjustable toe clips! Actually the problem only arose on fitting mudguards and even then it is only the bottom stays that are an issue - not on the road as someone pointed out but on the byeways and lanes which require evasive low speed action.

[Bmblbzzz]

By the way, I hope we all know about Alice B. Toeclips:
https://jacquiephelan.org/2007/09/25/al ... o-are-you/

[531colin]

.............
Ah - well - let's go one further.
Wisdom published in some places, and often repeated, also says that the ball of the foot should be vertically below the knee.
Yes, but where in the knee?
One answer to that - that I've seen in print (but not on this forum) - is that the fulcrum/pivot point of those joints should be vertically above/below each other.
How does one find them?
It really is a difficult one.
.

This is "knee over pedal spindle" or KOPS

KOPS by 531colin, on Flickr

Cranks horizontal, plumbline held on the tibial tubercle (bony protuberance at the top of the tibia, where the patellar tendon attaches.....tense your quads, and you can feel the patellar tendon tense). The plumbline is supposed to point at the pedal spindle.

This is a rule of thumb way to find your saddle setback.

I prefer the "balance point" method

Balanced position by 531colin, on Flickr

Where pedaling at your "usual" force you don't need to prop up your torso on your arms. This means that as I get older and weaker, and my "usual" pedal force reduces, I need to move the saddle ever backwards to keep excess weight off my hands. I think thats an advantage.....

[JohnW]

.............
Ah - well - let's go one further.
Wisdom published in some places, and often repeated, also says that the ball of the foot should be vertically below the knee.
Yes, but where in the knee?
One answer to that - that I've seen in print (but not on this forum) - is that the fulcrum/pivot point of those joints should be vertically above/below each other.
How does one find them?
It really is a difficult one.
.

....................This means that as I get older and weaker, and my "usual" pedal force reduces, I need to move the saddle ever backwards to keep excess weight off my hands. I think thats an advantage.....

(I've just come back to this thread.)

I'm finding the same Colin, but I think for different reasons - I'd concluded that my upper leg was growing!!!

[MartinS]

As I started this discussion I will up date with my progress to date - I have fitted adjustable toe clips and presently have them set to 50mm from front of pedal rather than 65mm with previous "standard" clips (actually having waved tape measure at a few now they seem to vary by up to 10mm). The result - no toe overlap which is great at low speed and improves confidence no end and so far with my ancient, arthritic, knees no ill effects that I can detect though my cycling is now of the "bimbling" variety!
Having seen the posts of all the dire things that may happen I waved a plumb line from my knee and position appears (it is a little tricky as others have mentioned) to be better, that is on the spindle line, than with previous toe clips but only time will tell if it is as comfortable.
Thanks to all for advice and info.

































9In

[Jdsk]

Thanks for the update.

Jonathan