P&O Ferries
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- Posts: 2750
- Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm
Re: P&O Ferries
Wow, this does not look good.
Re: P&O Ferries
Excellent - some actual travel news! (shame it's not great - hopefully everyone here has plans a little later in the year ... )
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- Posts: 2750
- Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm
Re: P&O Ferries
This is neither very nice to their staff, nor to the customers, to put it very nicely. Dutch law would not allow this, is all I can say. I am amazed that in the modern age a company thinks it can get away with such tactics from the 1930s.
Re: P&O Ferries
This is simply dreadful. I suspect that this is the thin end of the wedge for UK employment. There's a lot of preparatory "briefings" about the need to hollow out staffing in the railway industry atm. I doubt it will be quite so brutal, but we seem to be entering an era where secure, well paid employment is reserved for the lucky few.
Re: P&O Ferries
The Dutch captain of the 'Pride of Hull' is, apparently, leading his crew in a sit-in. Good on him!willem jongman wrote: ↑17 Mar 2022, 2:43pm This is neither very nice to their staff, nor to the customers, to put it very nicely. Dutch law would not allow this, is all I can say. I am amazed that in the modern age a company thinks it can get away with such tactics from the 1930s.
https://twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status ... RzWJV_cAQA
Re: P&O Ferries
I thought a company making people redundant had to give notice, undertake consultations, help affected employees find alternative work, etc. I'm no employment law expert but just dismissing entire section of staff through a video message on-the-spot. If they've had time to organise agency staff (who are apparently already waiting in ports) then they had time to notify staff in a more reasonable manner.
And all the reports are saying "sacked" or "dismissed" but they are press reports but to "sack" somebody you need a reason, personnel file record of disciplinary action (e.g. repeated late arrival after verbal warnings). Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).
Ian
And all the reports are saying "sacked" or "dismissed" but they are press reports but to "sack" somebody you need a reason, personnel file record of disciplinary action (e.g. repeated late arrival after verbal warnings). Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).
Ian
Re: P&O Ferries
The "Pride of Rotterdam" which still flies under a Dutch flag is moored in Rotterdam port at the moment. We will see if its crew is treated any better than crews of the UK-based ferries which are now Cypriot, Bahamain, Bermudan, Finnish and Maltese "for operational and accounting reasons" but I suspect willem may be unhappy to see that Dutch law does allow Dutch employees of an Emirati company to be screwed this way, or is at least fairly toothless in its punishment.pal wrote: ↑17 Mar 2022, 4:15pmThe Dutch captain of the 'Pride of Hull' is, apparently, leading his crew in a sit-in. Good on him!willem jongman wrote: ↑17 Mar 2022, 2:43pm This is neither very nice to their staff, nor to the customers, to put it very nicely. Dutch law would not allow this, is all I can say. I am amazed that in the modern age a company thinks it can get away with such tactics from the 1930s.
https://twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status ... RzWJV_cAQA
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: P&O Ferries
It cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?
While the newspapers call it "sacked", it is also more widely known as "fire and rehire" which should be illegal in general, but it is in the way P&O/DPWorld seem to have done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57670287
I wonder if the new owners of P&O Cruises have any comeback against P&O Ferries for trashing the brand?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: P&O Ferries
From what we know so far it looks as if the employer hasn't carried out the required consultation. That would support claims for unfair dismissal.mjr wrote: ↑17 Mar 2022, 5:24pmIt cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?
While the newspapers call it "sacked", it is also more widely known as "fire and rehire" which should be illegal in general, but it is in the way P&O/DPWorld seem to have done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57670287
Jonathan
Re: P&O Ferries
I thought process (given I have no experience of employment law) is in effect it could be like a company saying it is no longer going to operate a warehouse and has sub-contracted to a 3rd party to undertake it's warehouse operations. I don't know what P&O have done but they could in effect be sub-contracting operation of their ferry service.mjr wrote: ↑17 Mar 2022, 5:24pmIt cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?
While the newspapers call it "sacked", it is also more widely known as "fire and rehire" which should be illegal in general, but it is in the way P&O/DPWorld seem to have done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57670287
....
Another aspect, according to reports I've seen (which are "early days" with no official statement so may be inaccurate) but the agency staff have already arrived at the ports and are waiting in busses - so "fire" but without the "rehire"?
But P&O don't seem to be saying much to anybody so the Press reports are probably based on what (ex?) employees are saying.
Ian
Re: P&O Ferries
BBC News just played the video announcement to staff and they said "You employment is terminated with immediate effect on the grounds of redundancy. Your final day of employment is today".
To my understanding they should have had letters detailing to terms of their redundancy. When I've had to make people redundant in the past it was one to one, face to face with each individual explaining, answering questions and giving them printed details of the terms of their redundancy (i.e. what they would get based on their service, salary, etc. with numbers calculated for them, tax implications, etc. not a generic info sheet about redundancy).
Parent company should be sacking the P&O Ferries Board for such incompetence and poor management. Maybe that's tomorrow?
Ian
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- Posts: 2750
- Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm
Re: P&O Ferries
The Dutch Trade Union Federation says that Dutch law does not allow P&O to treat the Dutch crew in a similar way. Thus far, P&O has not tried.