P&O Ferries

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Post Reply
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

P&O Ferries

Post by Jdsk »

moderator note: this thread was split off from Europe 2022

Image
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by willem jongman »

Wow, this does not look good.
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

P&O Ferries

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 11:07am Image
Screenshot 2022-03-17 at 11.47.21.png
Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 11:48am
Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 11:07am Image
Screenshot 2022-03-17 at 11.47.21.png
Screenshot 2022-03-17 at 14.11.53.png
https://twitter.com/POferriesupdate

Jonathan
mattheus
Posts: 5044
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 2:12pm
Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 11:48am
Jdsk wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 11:07am Image
Screenshot 2022-03-17 at 11.47.21.png
Screenshot 2022-03-17 at 14.11.53.png
https://twitter.com/POferriesupdate

Jonathan
Excellent - some actual travel news! (shame it's not great - hopefully everyone here has plans a little later in the year ... )
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by willem jongman »

This is neither very nice to their staff, nor to the customers, to put it very nicely. Dutch law would not allow this, is all I can say. I am amazed that in the modern age a company thinks it can get away with such tactics from the 1930s.
Pendodave
Posts: 531
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by Pendodave »

This is simply dreadful. I suspect that this is the thin end of the wedge for UK employment. There's a lot of preparatory "briefings" about the need to hollow out staffing in the railway industry atm. I doubt it will be quite so brutal, but we seem to be entering an era where secure, well paid employment is reserved for the lucky few.
pal
Posts: 612
Joined: 22 Mar 2008, 11:49am

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by pal »

willem jongman wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 2:43pm This is neither very nice to their staff, nor to the customers, to put it very nicely. Dutch law would not allow this, is all I can say. I am amazed that in the modern age a company thinks it can get away with such tactics from the 1930s.
The Dutch captain of the 'Pride of Hull' is, apparently, leading his crew in a sit-in. Good on him!
https://twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status ... RzWJV_cAQA
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by Psamathe »

I thought a company making people redundant had to give notice, undertake consultations, help affected employees find alternative work, etc. I'm no employment law expert but just dismissing entire section of staff through a video message on-the-spot. If they've had time to organise agency staff (who are apparently already waiting in ports) then they had time to notify staff in a more reasonable manner.

And all the reports are saying "sacked" or "dismissed" but they are press reports but to "sack" somebody you need a reason, personnel file record of disciplinary action (e.g. repeated late arrival after verbal warnings). Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).

Ian
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by mjr »

pal wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 4:15pm
willem jongman wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 2:43pm This is neither very nice to their staff, nor to the customers, to put it very nicely. Dutch law would not allow this, is all I can say. I am amazed that in the modern age a company thinks it can get away with such tactics from the 1930s.
The Dutch captain of the 'Pride of Hull' is, apparently, leading his crew in a sit-in. Good on him!
https://twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status ... RzWJV_cAQA
The "Pride of Rotterdam" which still flies under a Dutch flag is moored in Rotterdam port at the moment. We will see if its crew is treated any better than crews of the UK-based ferries which are now Cypriot, Bahamain, Bermudan, Finnish and Maltese "for operational and accounting reasons" but I suspect willem may be unhappy to see that Dutch law does allow Dutch employees of an Emirati company to be screwed this way, or is at least fairly toothless in its punishment.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 4:55pm Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).
It cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?

While the newspapers call it "sacked", it is also more widely known as "fire and rehire" which should be illegal in general, but it is in the way P&O/DPWorld seem to have done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57670287

I wonder if the new owners of P&O Cruises have any comeback against P&O Ferries for trashing the brand?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 5:24pm
Psamathe wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 4:55pm Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).
It cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?

While the newspapers call it "sacked", it is also more widely known as "fire and rehire" which should be illegal in general, but it is in the way P&O/DPWorld seem to have done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57670287
From what we know so far it looks as if the employer hasn't carried out the required consultation. That would support claims for unfair dismissal.

Jonathan
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 5:24pm
Psamathe wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 4:55pm Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).
It cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?

While the newspapers call it "sacked", it is also more widely known as "fire and rehire" which should be illegal in general, but it is in the way P&O/DPWorld seem to have done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57670287
....
I thought process (given I have no experience of employment law) is in effect it could be like a company saying it is no longer going to operate a warehouse and has sub-contracted to a 3rd party to undertake it's warehouse operations. I don't know what P&O have done but they could in effect be sub-contracting operation of their ferry service.

Another aspect, according to reports I've seen (which are "early days" with no official statement so may be inaccurate) but the agency staff have already arrived at the ports and are waiting in busses - so "fire" but without the "rehire"?

But P&O don't seem to be saying much to anybody so the Press reports are probably based on what (ex?) employees are saying.

Ian
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 5:24pm
Psamathe wrote: 17 Mar 2022, 4:55pm Redundancy means lump sum payments depending on service which sounds like it hasn't happened (despite P&O having started planning this some time ago).
It cannot be redundancy if the jobs still exist and are being done by agency workers, can it?
....
BBC News just played the video announcement to staff and they said "You employment is terminated with immediate effect on the grounds of redundancy. Your final day of employment is today".

To my understanding they should have had letters detailing to terms of their redundancy. When I've had to make people redundant in the past it was one to one, face to face with each individual explaining, answering questions and giving them printed details of the terms of their redundancy (i.e. what they would get based on their service, salary, etc. with numbers calculated for them, tax implications, etc. not a generic info sheet about redundancy).

Parent company should be sacking the P&O Ferries Board for such incompetence and poor management. Maybe that's tomorrow?

Ian
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: P&O Ferries

Post by willem jongman »

The Dutch Trade Union Federation says that Dutch law does not allow P&O to treat the Dutch crew in a similar way. Thus far, P&O has not tried.
Post Reply