Wild Camping in Grave yard. Would ya, should ya, could ya

[Jdsk]

... but suffice to say I view it as a form of desecration.

What does that mean... would anyone be harmed?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Thehairs1970]

Desecration - to treat a sacred place with disrespect.

Obviously, Tangled Metal feels this is disrespectful whereas Jdsk doesn’t as no harm is done. Harm, can of course, be mental or emotional. That’s why I feel you have to know the area well to ensure emotional harm doesn’t take place.

[Jdsk]

Obviously, Tangled Metal feels this is disrespectful whereas Jdsk doesn’t as no harm is done.

I was asking, not telling.

Jonathan

[ossie]

I often stop for lunch in graveyards because there are usually a few benches.

You mean like this Likewise I would draw the line at camping in a graveyard.

[Tangled Metal]

... but suffice to say I view it as a form of desecration.

What does that mean... would anyone be harmed?

Thanks

Jonathan

Pur it this way, at one time those graves were tended and visited by the deceased relatives. Each grave meant something to them. My view is that meaning remains in some way after there's nobody to remember.

It's interesting to think people accept the principle of war graves, great war cemeteries and even graves of the unknown soldier. We respect old knights and Kings, even poets, philosophers and politicians in cathedrals. There's many long since deceased people whose graves and markers get respect but those of the ordinary man and woman have no respect just a convenient campsite. That's not something I'm exactly comfortable with.

Each to their own views and tbh each have the same merit to others.

[Jdsk]

Thanks

Jonathan

[Tangled Metal]

There's an old Chapel with graveyard in a village I used to live in. Not been used since victorian times indeed earlier I'm sure, except for once a year local "new" church congregation marches down there for a service in the grounds and inside. It's a very simple and basic Chapel but it was once the main graveyard. Long since disused except for certain old, village families who could still be buried in family pitches if they wanted. I think there was a few from the 70s but they were extra inscriptions on a much older gravestone. There's a few with dates spread over a few hundred years! Memories can last in places. BTW that cemetery gets tidied up twice a year or maybe more often. It could look a bit neglected at times.

Another church graveyard not too far from my last house has been closed to new burials except for a few local families for whom there's family plots have been long since paid for. My mate was in one such family and he showed us where he was going to be buried, his mum and dad, grandparents too. Even his or his siblings kids should they have any. He led us past great uncle, great grandparents even double greats. He had something to say about them all.

With people moving around a lot more than in past times you never know who might still have such family stories about the deceased in old cemeteries. They've even made a tv series about such stories of celebrity's ancesters. Difficult to be sure harm isn't done.

[Tigerbiten]

I'm on the middle ground with this.
While I have very very rarely kipped down in an odd graveyard in the past, rolled up in my groundsheet after making sure that there was not a grave under me. Got delayed and it was a quiet spot out of sight.
I would never think of putting up an actual tent in one, unless I found the local priest and got permission as to if/where it was permissible.

Luck ..........

[pwa]

Well I'm obviously swimming against the tide here in that I find it distasteful to even consider it. Whether there anyone left who knew the inhabitants it still represents a life that was once in this earth. I don't think I'm explaining myself very well but suffice to say I view it as a form of desecration.

It reminds me of an online discussion about a traveller from Peru who was going round the world performing new age sun worshipping n ceremonies claiming to be practising the religion of his inca ancestry. The debate was specifically about castlerigg stone circle. He wanted to perform a solstice sunrise ceremony in the centre while a few fairy worshippers watched on. The guardians objected so the neighbouring farmer let him carry it out in the field next door. A fire and stupid dancing by all accounts. A lot on the forum agreed that since the site was v possibly religious and nobody knew the practises it was wrong to carry out yours on their site. Like carrying out a satanist ceremony in Canterbury cathedral. Cue a fair few new members with their first post in support of the guy. With screen names like rainbowfairychild. It was quite funny how they claimed to be all the same religion and other new age rubbish.

Sorry if that's too disrespectful of new age religions. I think modern made up religions are fair game for ridicule if they claim more than just being someone's fantasy.

Anyway, back on topic I have always had a higher than normal sense of respect for graveyards / cemeteries. Indeed burial grounds of all kinds. Just because nobody living knows the people whose remains were put there doesn't change anything for me. It is however a personal choice. I'd rather kip somewhere else. I've even once kipped in a cowshed on a raised and mostly clean patch of concrete. There is probably somewhere else in the neighbourhood if you just got there and looked around, even asked someone.

I would not want to show disrespect in an active graveyard likely to have people living nearby who remember some of those buried there. But for a long abandoned graveyard, for me the same sensitivity does not apply. And for a circle of rocks on a hilltop, who is there to offend or upset? Apart from English Heritage. Nobody really knows the beliefs behind those anyway. All religious beliefs were modern and made up at the start, of course. And all religions are fantasy, even the older ones. The key thing is, not to offend by putting a tent where someone else would find it offensive, regardless of whether you agree with them about their reasons.

[Carlton green]

Is much of this about the perception of others and subtle details of the stay?

I’m all for not causing offence but it’s hard to know what other individuals would actually be upset about and what they’d just accept without much though or questioning. Many public places have in-memoriam benches for someone to rest on and likewise you might find one in a graveyard too. I wonder how the now dead would have reacted when alive, perhaps they’d be pleased that a traveler wanted to rest a night with them?

It’s hard to know and each case is individual, but if someone is discrete and leaves no trace of having been there then in my estimation the likely hood (individual outcomes are uncertain) is that it’s a none issue. As a relative I’d be more concerned about habitual rough sleepers, fouling of the cemetery and it’s misuse for gatherings of say drug users. The very occasional traveler who stayed the night in genuine extremis, was discrete and left no trace seems relatively insignificant, but perhaps such a proposed stay should be plan ‘z’ rather than plan ‘b’.

[Norman H]

Camping in churches (or “Champing”) is officially sanctioned under a scheme set up by the Churches Conservation Trust.

[Tangled Metal]

If a site once meant something important to a group of people then even though those people are long gone I believe we should maintain the same respect as if it was that important to us.

I wonder how many people here support the heritage sector through various charities, organisations, visits, donations, etc? Helping to fund charities who put blue plaques on buildings that once had a famous but long dead celebrity staying there. It seems we're happy visiting sites. It feels to me that people pick and choose what's important and if it's not they'll use it how they want.

Why not pick am uncared for garden and kip there? Why not find a bus shelter, park, farmland, etc? Is there really nowhere else? What is it that you're doing that leaves you in a position where there's no other shelter choice than a cemetery/graveyard? No b and b, hotel, campsite, other wildcamping spot on your route? In this country I doubt that's the case. If you're in that position you really should be at last resort.


As I said before you really don't know who finds such places important and who takes offence. I know disused graveyard who's bodies have local, living ancestors who still remember the deceased through family history. Look at any quiet, rural graveyard and you'll often see the same names repeating across centuries. Where I lived there were many names that kids I went to school with shared. Some were not very common names so it's likely there's a relationship there.

But then there's the odd cases where a neighbour to a disused graveyard maintains it for their own reasons. That little Chapel in my old village was like that. The lady in the old ferry house next door used to tend it when it got too unruly. No spring chicken but she was sprightly enough to grow her own fruit and veg plus try and care for the old graveyard. She's chased youths out many a time, a wild camper would similarly get short shrift!

Anyway, I hope the OP finds an alternative when he gets into the area.

[Tangled Metal]

Camping in churches (or “Champing”) is officially sanctioned under a scheme set up by the Churches Conservation Trust.

In churches not graveyards surely? Plus organised and unlikely to be free. More likely a fundraising thing too. Not the same as sleeping in a graveyard without permission.

[Steve X]

Well I'm obviously swimming against the tide here in that I find it distasteful to even consider it. Whether there anyone left who knew the inhabitants it still represents a life that was once in this earth. I don't think I'm explaining myself very well but suffice to say I view it as a form of desecration.

To use that logic, what do you think of people visiting tombs in Egypt and say the display of I think he is called Lindow Pete, and Archeaologists digging up medieval grave yards.
I do accept what you say, the reason I was in the graveyard is I find them fascinating, as a source of local history and to get a sense of the area. I would highly recommend, if in Italy, visiting a Cemetery Monumenatale, the one in Verona is stunning, and apparently the one in Milan is amazing.

[Steve X]

If a site once meant something important to a group of people then even though those people are long gone I believe we should maintain the same respect as if it was that important to us.

If you I ever in Lancashire, I would highly recommend visiting Brockhall graveyard, and you will see a very vivid example of how society values its citizens. https://www.calderstones-cemetery.co.uk ... -cemetery/. Basically in the Church Graveyard, local people are valued, in the Hospital cemetery next door, people with mental illness, were discarded. Slightly harder to visit, as you have to get a key from the Hospital, but its only a 5 minute ride away, and they are nice, is Calderstones Cemetery, where you will find a full on British War Cemetery, right next to a field of 2000 discarded mental hospital patients.

I shall attempt to have a chat with a Vicar or Priest about this, and get their view.