Cycling / driving mindsets

[Tangled Metal]

An incident happened while cycling to work this morning that's a little out of character for me. Less an incident more a thought process that I'm a little embarrassed by.

Cycling down a hill to a T junction that most times I can speed through without slowing too much I spotted a pedestrian. "He's not going to cross is he?" I thought. Sure enough he was oblivious to everything around him. So I had to slow even nearly stop to let him through. He still didn't notice me!

That's when I got the mentality that some motorists get with cyclists. The "get out of my way!" attitude. Not my finest moment and it passed in seconds and I then remembered hierarchy of vulnerability thing that's now law or HC.

A case of wrong time, wrong mood and out of character for me. Still I'm disgusted with it but it got me thinking about mindsets. There's talk on here of motorists' sense of entitlement to the road with us more vulnerable users required to get out the way or not hold us up. What about talk of cyclist's mindset?

Nobody is perfect or completely imperfect but do we as cyclists, a well as when we're using other modes of getting around, have our own problem mindsets?


I don't think I'm alone here with a cyclist's form of "get out of my way" attitude on the odd occasion (of poor impulse control perhaps). Having read threads about pedestrians and dog walkers on here I don't think we're that much differentin mindset at times. It's just the level of carnage our carriage is capable of.

What's your take on this? I'm hoping this doesn't become defensive or about taking sides. I'm hoping for an honest exploration of mindsets. I'd rather know that when all said and done I have my own faults and need for improvement.

With changing mindsets I think it's hard to completely do it. It is important first step to identify the problems and hopefully root causes.

[gbnz]

Sure enough he was oblivious to everything around him.

What's your take on this?

Personally I'd show appropriate levels of care and attention. Thus when routinely walking 40-50 miles a week to pick up the shopping or whatever, or doing 100-200 miles on the bike, I'll drop the speed when appropriate I.e. 08.00-09.00, 15.30-16.00 Hr's when kids are a danger, the remainder of the day when elderly, slow witted or whatever may be walking around town, taking particular care in those sections of town which I'm aware are high risk I.e. 19th century cross roads or terraced housing, the entry/exit roads to the council estate whose motorists are slow witted and prone to pull out without looking (Nb. Whilst getting the routine thanks on pulling over to allow the heavly loaded HGV's, tractors and double deckers overtake on difficult country roads)

But? When on the couple of sections of cycle path I routinely use, with disinterested dog walkers walking their dogs on 10-15' leads, waking abreast and effectively blocking the route? Quite happily cycle past with inches to spare. I routinely walk the same routes and walking at the side of the path and having a occasional look behind isn't too high an expectation. Why middle aged dog walkers think it's quite appropriate to walk, blocking the route, wearing headphones, completely oblivious & indifferent to passing cyclists is beyond me. And it's quite pleasing to hear the squeals of indignation (Nb. Obviously I ensure the dogs are aware)

[Tiberius]

If that had been me I would have pinged my bell - a 'Lion' bell that has a lovely, loud enough, but inoffensive tone.

I'm not saying 'Wakey Wakey' get out of my way, I'm saying 'Wakey Wakey' when you're crossing the road. It sounds like he was so 'miles away' in his head that he wouldn't have noticed you if you had been driving a truck.

You said 'he was oblivious to everything around him' well he shouldn't be. I completely understand the hierarchy of vulnerability arguement but what about personal responsibility?

[Stradageek]

What's your take on this? I'm hoping this doesn't become defensive or about taking sides. I'm hoping for an honest exploration of mindsets. I'd rather know that when all said and done I have my own faults and need for improvement.

Thanks for this Tangled Metal, I've found that my mindset has been in constant need of revision and this forum has often helped in this respect.

I once complained of horse riders that took horses onto the road knowing that my recumbent bike could freak them out - how irresponsible I opined, only to be corrected by a post pointing out that public highways are for everyone and we owe each other a duty of care

I once whizzed by an oblivious pedestrian on a shared use path and when I stopped to chat with someone further on the pedestrian caught up and courteously pointed out that my fast-pass was a bit scary. I now slow down for all pedestrians on the same 'share the path - duty of care' principle

Similarly I once came round a corner on a shared use path to find a gaggle of dog owners chatting and blocking the entire path, I was annoyed, so were they, and told me to slow down - they had a point.

My cycle rides are now punctuated by pauses as I slow to chat with horse riders and pedestrians at irregular intervals and much the more pleasant experience as a result. The angst caused by encountering 'podestrians' and 'meanderthals' on their mobile phones/earbuds has all but disappeared

[Norman H]

Yes, it' something we all need to be reminded of from time to time and has much to do with living busy lives and having to share crowded roads with other users. The frustrations of living in relatively overcrowded communities, of both driving and cycling on busy roads, lowers our threshold of intolerance and preconditions us to be more antisocial and to react badly when we encounter stressful situations.

[reohn2]

.......With changing mindsets I think it's hard to completely do it. It is important first step to identify the problems and hopefully root causes.

Philosophy alert:-
The root cause is entitlement and seperation,usually by the more powerful party,that,IMO can be because of the attitude of might is right or,I'm travelling at x speed and don't want to slow down to y speed just to speed up again to x because of others which are seen as obstacles in the way.
Once a true acceptance of the situations as they arise in the light of other travellers on the same same route wishing to get where they're going too,travelling by whatever means becomes less of a frustrating burden and more of a satisfactory pleasure.
This mindset needs less of an attitude of me/myself/I as an exclusive,and more of an us/ourselves/we as an all inclusive.

Of course we all make mistakes,the trick is to see them as mistakes and learn from them so we don't keep repeating them over and over,not so easy for someone with an outlook of me/myself/I attitude.That mindset sees the self as the centre of everything and everything else as subservient to them and as a result can never be wrong,to dislodge that mindset needs a lot of work by the individual to overcome it.The first step is recognising the fault of the self which in itself is a mountain to climb against a lifetime of selfcentredness.

My 2d's worth

[Jdsk]

What's your take on this? I'm hoping this doesn't become defensive or about taking sides. I'm hoping for an honest exploration of mindsets. I'd rather know that when all said and done I have my own faults and need for improvement.

With changing mindsets I think it's hard to completely do it. It is important first step to identify the problems and hopefully root causes.

My cycle rides are now punctuated by pauses as I slow to chat with horse riders and pedestrians at irregular intervals and much the more pleasant experience as a result. The angst caused by encountering 'podestrians' and 'meanderthals' on their mobile phones/earbuds has all but disappeared

Thanks for raising this.

Experience of using other means of transport generally helps.

Being in the right frame of mind before setting off and having a way of getting back into it are smart. Nice description, Stradageek.

But of course our general tendency to descend into outgroup hatred is waiting to be triggered. I'm always saddened when I see it in these forums.

Jonathan

[Tangled Metal]

This is getting interesting! I nearly didn't start the thread because I thought I was being self indulgent and people would turn it into a divisive them and us thread. I think this forum is capable of more than that so I posted.

There's some really thought provoking posts imho. Very much along my lines of thought. Both driving, cycling and walking I have certainly changed my mindset over the years. This forum and others help too but a big change was moving to the country village which is a local cycling destination. Walking around I see the best and worst of people going places. I can give examples of good and bad for all users.

Last year after moving in covid was still bad and local pedestrians would step into the road to let elderly, kids or other higher risk people stay on the road but still keeping socially distant. A kind of old school consideration going on.

Whilst that's the case with pedestrians living in the village not so with visitors brought in by train from places like Manchester and Preston when the sun shone.

Also a lot of middle aged to retired gentlemen on expensive road bikes tended to ride quickly through the village centre. Sightlines for pedestrians crossing is limited without stepping out past parked cars to see round them. We've often had abuse from them just for that. Not all are like that. However there is a proportion with that "motorists entitlement ". Bear in mind we get easily over 100 cyclists visiting on busy days.

I think it's more the type of person they are rather than what they're doing though. Minority the problem too. But then again I still had this entitled view creeping into my mind this morning. Perhaps all the negative cases we've experienced are wrong time, wrong mood instances like mine this morning. At least I didn't act on my flash thought and self corrected that thought 20m further on.

It is probably the case we all need vigilance to stop those negative mindsets coming out!

[reohn2]

Scorton?

[Tangled Metal]

Nope North of Carnforth and coastal. Gets almost continuous passing n cyclists in summer when it's a nice weekend.

[reohn2]

Nope North of Carnforth and coastal. Gets almost continuous passing n cyclists in summer when it's a nice weekend.

OK

[Carlton green]

Thank you TM, an interesting thread and representative of amongst the most useful comments on forums. Over the years I’ve learnt a lot from forums, sometimes my views have changed and sometimes they have strengthened but all of that has happened due to friendly and informative discussion. Of course there are tribal discussions too; I find that fixed and closed mindset talk has limited value to me - and probably to others too - but I really welcome open minded discussion.