Cycling UK Forum

Hello. This is subjective of course, and it's very difficult to describe what good coffee is to one person, but does anybody have a suggestion? I've had fresh coffee that is bitter, watery, dark etc etc, and a lot of coffee I've enjoyed. For one reason or another I've never got around to asking what brand I've been served, and those really lovely smooth-but-deep coffees only seem to crop up once in a while. Indeed, I reckon it was 2015 when I last had a wonderful coffee.
Maybe I'm not a coinneseur; I want to dodge the pretentiousness and find a coffee that is so smooth that it almost tastes like it has milk in it (I take it black), but it has to also have that rare, wonderful taste.

Edit - I'm looking for off the shelf stuff for a cafetiere.

Yes, I have a suggestion: include some blinded testing in your search for what you like. And preferably double blinded. There's enormous bias in everything to do with taste and smell and that's the easiest and quickest way to reduce it.

Happy to discuss the practicalities if you're interested.

So as a first step make that (at least) two identical cafetières. : - )

Jonathan

PS: See also wine, audio systems...

VanDriver wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 7:58am
Edit - I'm looking for off the shelf stuff for a cafetiere.

There, perhaps, lies the problem.

I've never got around to asking what brand I've been served,

Or how it was made ?

Even without worrying about the actual coffee there are lots of other variables to consider...
Water temperature
Brew time
Ratio of coffee to water
Time since the packet was opened (assuming not freshly ground)

I wish you good luck in your quest.

Like a lot of cooking, you're conducting an incredibly complicated scientific process... probably before breakfast.

Quality also has a location/circumstances element. Some of the best coffee I've had was 3 in 1 sachet coffee made after a long day in the hills while sleeping out wild on top of a fell after really bad weather.

Or after getting off the river in the depths of winter half hypothermic when a simple drink of the remnants of your flask is enough to bring you round.

Sometimes wet and warm is more than good enough!

VanDriver wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 7:58am Edit - I'm looking for off the shelf stuff for a cafetiere.

It depends whose shelf: supermarket coffee is rubbish.

Get yourself a burr grinder - something like a Baratza Encore is adequate for drip coffee - then order yourself three or four different coffees from somewhere like https://www.hasbean.co.uk/ (no connection) and grind it yourself. Use 60-70g coffee per litre of water.

You could also get a hand grinder such as a Porlex.

Don't buy large bags: once opened it'll deteriorate, and even the best coffees decline to supermarket level in about a month after roasting. The roasting date should be on the bag, and should not be more than 2 weeks in the past. It will be at its peak at 2 weeks.

Don't grind a lot at a time, just enough for a brew. CW is that unroasted coffee is good for two years, roast coffee for four weeks, ground coffee for 15 minutes.

All that ^^^^ explains why a really good cup is a rarity.

I could go on about this for hours, but...

Pendodave wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 9:16am Even without worrying about the actual coffee there are lots of other variables to consider...
Water temperature
Brew time
Ratio of coffee to water
Time since the packet was opened (assuming not freshly ground)

Yes.

Tangled Metal wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 10:13am Quality also has a location/circumstances element.

Yes: place, time, mood, food, company, memories...

That's why controlled study and blinding is so necessary and so helpful.

Jonathan

Consistent results - good results, that is, consistently bad results are easy - are a problem even for the pros. I once had a wonderful shot of espresso in a bar in Reims and immediately ordered a second one, which was mediocre.

I eventually gave up trying for perfect consistency and got a B2C machine, which is never great but always good.

Audax67 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 1:51pm Consistent results - good results, that is, consistently bad results are easy - are a problem even for the pros. I once had a wonderful shot of espresso in a bar in Reims and immediately ordered a second one, which was mediocre.

I eventually gave up trying for perfect consistency and got a B2C machine, which is never great but always good.

Me too - if cleaned, and if fed good beans.

I reckon you have become too focussed and lost your way in the maze of speciality roasts.
Take a step back and I’m sure you will realise that what you crave is a good cup of tea.

peetee wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:10pm I reckon you have become too focussed and lost your way in the maze of speciality roasts.
Take a step back and I’m sure you will realise that what you crave is a good cup of tea.
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Which is, in terms of flavours (there's a technical term I forget) is much much more complex than coffee.

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 1:54pm Me too - if cleaned, and if fed good beans.

Unfortunately, 'if fed good beans' caught my eye before I read the quote it referred to and I had visions of feeding coffee beans to some kind of animal - a pig, perhaps - and allowing them to pass through its system before drying them, roasting them and grinding them, presumably to enhance and sophisticate the subsequent flavour and aroma of the coffee. It wouldn't be the first time in human endeavour that such strategies had been applied.

I've got an overactive imagination (probably as a result of drinking too much coffee).

kylecycler wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:20pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 1:54pm Me too - if cleaned, and if fed good beans.

Unfortunately, 'if fed good beans' caught my eye before I read the quote it referred to and I had visions of feeding coffee beans to some kind of animal - a pig, perhaps - and allowing them to pass through its system before drying them, roasting them and grinding them, presumably to enhance and sophisticate the subsequent flavour and aroma of the coffee. It wouldn't be the first time in human endeavour that such strategies had been applied.

How about an Asian palm civet rather than a pig?

Shirley

Jdsk wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:23pm

kylecycler wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:20pm

Bonefishblues wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 1:54pm Me too - if cleaned, and if fed good beans.

Unfortunately, 'if fed good beans' caught my eye before I read the quote it referred to and I had visions of feeding coffee beans to some kind of animal - a pig, perhaps - and allowing them to pass through its system before drying them, roasting them and grinding them, presumably to enhance and sophisticate the subsequent flavour and aroma of the coffee. It wouldn't be the first time in human endeavour that such strategies had been applied.

How about an Asian palm civet rather than a pig?

Shirley

And I thought I had a vivid imagination.

kylecycler wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:34pm

Jdsk wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:23pm

kylecycler wrote: ↑25 Mar 2022, 2:20pm
Unfortunately, 'if fed good beans' caught my eye before I read the quote it referred to and I had visions of feeding coffee beans to some kind of animal - a pig, perhaps - and allowing them to pass through its system before drying them, roasting them and grinding them, presumably to enhance and sophisticate the subsequent flavour and aroma of the coffee. It wouldn't be the first time in human endeavour that such strategies had been applied.

How about an Asian palm civet rather than a pig?

Shirley

And I thought I had a vivid imagination.

That's a vivverid imagination!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_pal ... Kopi_luwak

Jonathan