Tangled Metal wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 6:46am
I knew people for whom forestry was not a good place to meet their longhound mix lurcher dog off the lead. Not unless they wanted to do a bit of poaching for venison! A good hunting dog follows its instincts when prey appears even with the best training.
I do think pwa has things right. Imo all users need to balance risk not just the dog owners. For every dog you see on your bike it could just as easily be a young child. Just as unpredictable but whereas hitting a dog is if not acceptable won't get the same levels of approbium as you'd get hitting a young child.
Our whippet hasn't seen a deer yet, so we don't know for sure what her reaction will be. She does like to chase after fleeing objects, but deer are big compared to her. Rabbits are more in her league. The danger with cyclists is that she would see running after one as a game. Chasing is what she is good at. She wouldn't attack one. But of course a dog chasing a cyclist, especially one who doesn't know her, is a situation full of danger and stress. I'd be so embarrassed too!
I suppose that in a situation in which I had got things wrong and my whippet did get into a chase situation with a passer-by, I might have to utter those words of assurance: "My dog is playing. She won't bite." Along with an apology. But that would be in a damage limitation situation where I had got it wrong and didn't want it to get even worse. I try to avoid having to do that. It hasn't happened yet.
Just remembered my dog's interaction with a whippet on the field near where I used to live. A young border terrier at the time and this whippet was bigger than she was plus a lot faster. It kept chasing her and banging into her. Our dog kept giving out signs she wasn't happy with this chase game and we left it a bit too long to intervene as did the other dog's owner.
Tbh I didn't want to. Our dog sorts things out in a dog's way. A snarl, a snap and a lot of noise. It's soon over and the whippet was off chasing a labrador that it couldn't even hope to push around. No damage done because our dog doesn't want to harm any other dog. It could being a terrier though.
In dog on dog interactions I believe most well adjusted dogs with well adjusted owners can sort things out themselves. It's the small dogs and fighting breeds and certain other unstable breeds/types that are a problem imho. That applies to dog interactions and dog with human interactions. I don't trust a chihuahua on an extendable lead on my bike.
I had a different "variant" today. My kid [pedestrian] just stepped out in front of you [cyclist] without looking, you [cyclist] emergency stopped and avoided an accident (politely saying nothing) and you [cyclist] are the dangerous one. Kid early teens walking beside Mum.
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 6:46am
I knew people for whom forestry was not a good place to meet their longhound mix lurcher dog off the lead. Not unless they wanted to do a bit of poaching for venison! A good hunting dog follows its instincts when prey appears even with the best training.
I agree but a well trained hunting dog will also listen to it's owner and do as it is told.
My dog,a Working Cocker Spaniel,follows all it's instincts and is free to do so until I either call him or blow the whistle.One whistle and he sits,stays and awaits further instruction.Follow this with two whistles and he returns to me.I use a specific gun-dog whistle that he can hear from very far away.He is not trained to work but trained to listen to me/us.
As I stated upthread I still put him back on his lead on shared tracks when I see approaching horses or cyclists even though I don't need to as he shows little interest in either.
One of my bugbears is folk who shout and scream at their dog,which ignores them,then they smile and say"they never listen do they" I usually reply politely "they do if trained correctly".
The people I talked about were both experienced dog owners and trainers, one in particular having done courses in dog behaviour and training. They were experienced with hunting breeds too.
This lurcher was just a high prey drive animal and despite training / expert help from a behaviourist they could not alter its behaviour.
The thing didn't do the killing neither. Once it barrelled into the deer, a tumbler hunting style, it got up and walked off bored. The other dog was a small labrador type dog and that dog did the killing deed as the deer was trying to get up.
They rehomed the dogs as a pair to friends outside the forest area where there was less of an issue. Not all dogs can have the "bad" behaviour trained out of them. That's what they found out after the highly trained dog behaviourist failed in that task.
We didn't get a dog for unconditional love. Anyone who does that really doesn't know anything about dogs. I've never known a dog to give unconditional love. They do what they do for resources that benefits them. When you can't help with that you're probably going to be ignored.
That little dog that went into the bushes then came out again. I wonder if the cyclist doing the emergency stop slowed down much knowing there's a dog in the area off lead? That dog didn't go into the bushes knowing you're there and didn't come out knowing you're there but the cyclist did.
If anything bad had happened who's at fault? If you have any doubt apply the young child test. Assume that was a young child instead of a dog and you saw it but still hit it. If you are still not sure switch the dog with your child when about 4 or 5. Would you come close in that situation?
Just remembered my dog's interaction with a whippet on the field near where I used to live. A young border terrier at the time and this whippet was bigger than she was plus a lot faster. It kept chasing her and banging into her. Our dog kept giving out signs she wasn't happy with this chase game and we left it a bit too long to intervene as did the other dog's owner.
Tbh I didn't want to. Our dog sorts things out in a dog's way. A snarl, a snap and a lot of noise. It's soon over and the whippet was off chasing a labrador that it couldn't even hope to push around. No damage done because our dog doesn't want to harm any other dog. It could being a terrier though.
In dog on dog interactions I believe most well adjusted dogs with well adjusted owners can sort things out themselves. It's the small dogs and fighting breeds and certain other unstable breeds/types that are a problem imho. That applies to dog interactions and dog with human interactions. I don't trust a chihuahua on an extendable lead on my bike.
Our whippet is quite nervous around small terriers. She was bitten by one when she was a pup and it set her socialisation back quite a bit. She is more confident with labs. It is a whippet thing to try to provoke another dog into chasing her, so she will playfully run up to a lab and try to get it to run after her. She has shown no inclination to attack another dog of any sort, thankfully. We have to watch her with cats though. And when she sees one she can shift quicker than cats tend to expect. 0 to 30 in a couple of seconds. She can change direction quickly too. I suppose they were originally bred to catch rabbits, which tells you all you need to know about their speed and agility. Here is an amusing whippet clip on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/15V7JhXfqbQ
Well if you are anywhere near South Cumbria and want a friendly terrier to help your dog over that nervousness around terriers I've got one. Probably ignore your dog in favour of any treats you might have. If your dog likes labradors then ours is an inner lab when it comes to food if that helps!
I must admit or dog has a distrust of black labs. As a young put she tried to get one to play. It was an older dog and didn't want to be bothered by a playful puppy. So it gave out a deep, gruff bark which scared our puppy. She instinctively jumped back, away from the old black lab only to land in the canal. Being a terrier she never liked water even muddy puddles she'd walk right out of her way to avoid. So you can understand why she is very wary of black labs.
I also heard that it is common for dogs to mistrust black labs. Apparently the theory is that all black dogs are difficult for other dogs to make out subtle signs of the black dog's attitude, especially in dusk or low light. No idea if true but I know of a few dogs that dislike / distrust black dogs.
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 5:28pm
That little dog that went into the bushes then came out again. I wonder if the cyclist doing the emergency stop slowed down much knowing there's a dog in the area off lead? That dog didn't go into the bushes knowing you're there and didn't come out knowing you're there but the cyclist did.
Obviously. I slowed to a walking pace and was poised to brake.
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 5:28pm
If anything bad had happened who's at fault? If you have any doubt apply the young child test. Assume that was a young child instead of a dog and you saw it but still hit it. If you are still not sure switch the dog with your child when about 4 or 5. Would you come close in that situation?
I'm not a psychopath. I can consider the welfare and feelings of other people and animals without having to mentally replace them with someone who shares my DNA.
Channel 5 had a documentary that might be of interest to posters on here. It's premise was simply dog owners are anti social and leave dog poop everywhere such that you can't walk anywhere without stepping in something. Perfect, straight out of daily mail style of progra so perhaps you might not be interested.
Don't you just hate programmes that are basically about increasing an issue between two or more groups. Also, that exaggerates an issue, scale of issue and the numbers creating the issue. Picking sides does not make a balanced programme on an issue.
Tangled Metal wrote: ↑16 Jun 2022, 11:39pm
Channel 5 had a documentary that might be of interest to posters on here. It's premise was simply dog owners are anti social and leave dog poop everywhere such that you can't walk anywhere without stepping in something. Perfect, straight out of daily mail style of progra so perhaps you might not be interested.
Don't you just hate programmes that are basically about increasing an issue between two or more groups. Also, that exaggerates an issue, scale of issue and the numbers creating the issue. Picking sides does not make a balanced programme on an issue.
The most interesting point in this programme was that during lockdown dog ownership rose from 9 million to 13 million dogs. That's a massive increase. And the majority of people who decide to become first time dog owners because of lockdown aren't going to be the responsible ones. They are going to be the f***wits. Hence the rise in dog fouling, poorly controlled dogs etc.
Mike Sales wrote: ↑18 Jun 2022, 12:39pm
Perhaps it is dog owners who should be licenced, not dogs. There would be a test to establish their fitness to be in control of a dog.
That might actually be a really sensible idea!
(It would also be good for serial/multiple dog owners, just the one set of paperwork)
Mike Sales wrote: ↑18 Jun 2022, 12:39pm
Perhaps it is dog owners who should be licenced, not dogs. There would be a test to establish their fitness to be in control of a dog.
That might actually be a really sensible idea!
(It would also be good for serial/multiple dog owners, just the one set of paperwork)
So compulsory dog training has no noticeable effect in Switzerland. Anyone got another example of compulsory training having no noticeable effect on behaviour? Oh like drivers not exactly following the various requirements for driving that's part of the driving test for example?
I did a cycling proficiency test as a kid and for a long time afterwards kind of ignored a lot of what I was taught.
Personally I did do several hours of training over about 10 weeks. Started with puppy socialisation classes then obedience. I would say that my dog handling skills are on a par or better than my cycling skills even though I have cycled for a hell of a lot longer.
The issue isn't training. It's more than one thing imho and some of them will be familiar to cyclists. First a few bad apples create the impression all dog owners are bad (see the similarity with DM reading anti cyclists view of cyclists with many ppls view of dog ownership? ).
Second shared space between users traveling I different speeds or ways is a recipe for conflict (oh, I'm spotting a similarity pattern with cyclists and dog owners here).
I'm sure there's more similarities. My point being that cyclists above all other users of mixed paths should be able to resist the urges to blame all for a minority and to resist blaming others when there's likely to be issues with your own behaviour too. There's a lot of criticisms made on here that remind me at least with anti cyclist rants on DM. They're not even licenced/taxed/tested comments is perhaps the most blatant.
I usually reply politely "they do if trained correctly".
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