"My dog may chase you, but he's friendly" today's ride

[matt2matt2002]

In a previous life when I lived in Scottish sheep country I was chased by a working Collie.
It ran along side me and nipped my ankle softly. Very unnerving but on relating the incident to a local farmers wife she laughingly explained that the dogs are trained to round up sheep that way . Never biting the sheep just steering the flock as directed by the shepherd.

Now, back to the frisbees......

[pwa]

In a previous life when I lived in Scottish sheep country I was chased by a working Collie.
It ran along side me and nipped my ankle softly. Very unnerving but on relating the incident to a local farmers wife she laughingly explained that the dogs are trained to round up sheep that way . Never biting the sheep just steering the flock as directed by the shepherd.

Now, back to the frisbees......

Collies (farm varieties) are among the smartest dogs, but should only be in the care of folk who are willing to put the hours in. They easily get bored if not kept busy, and they then get up to mischief. Their ability for herding is a deflected form of hunting, and a border collie (or similar) not given enough attention will try to hunt.

A farm dog play biting (as described above) is not going to break the skin, but a farmer ought not to be allowing their dogs to herd people. Nervous victims will be scared, and even those who know the harmlessness of the play bite will be annoyed.

[KirkPatric]

Challenge a dog owner about an uncontrolled dog on a cycle path and they're liable to say "But it's a cycle path". Well a cycle travelling at 15mph (Sustrans recommended max) hitting a dog that's run in front of it will make a nasty mess of the dog and possibly the cyclist too when he/she falls off.
Most dogs don't understand bikes, they don't know to look before they come out from behind bushes at the side of the path or just suddenly decide to run and don't understand the speed bikes travel at. Some otherwise friendly dogs will attack what they don't understand, a bike slowing as it approaches them increases the likelihood of an attack, I've been bitten by a dog in that kind of circumstance, though that was a guard dog allowed to run out in the road. I've had one small dog run in front of the bike then lie down, I think he expected me or the bike to pat him when I was doing an emergency stop to try and not hit him. Near misses on our local cycle paths are common and often involve leaving the tarmac to avoid a dog either off the lead or on a ridiculously long lead. Recently a small dog left 50+metres behind by its owner, had a petrified look on its face as I approached and while it was staying still, looked as though it was figuring whether to stay still or bolt which would have taken it right in front of me, Of course I dismounted and walked past it. The owner & friend went psycho when I said it should be on a lead.
"Cycling well within split-second braking capability, and a good loud bell are essentials"
So it'll need to be a 5mph speed limit on all shared paths, dogs don't understand bells either.

[Benz3ne]

I've recently had a couple of instances of dogs lunging towards my bike on shared paths. I give as wide a berth as physically possible, but sometimes that doesn't stop the owners from leaving their dog's lead loose.
Oftentimes, if I have a bit of time on my hands, I'll stop at a distance and ask if the dog is friendly and wants to say hi. Usually they say 'they might not say hello' but it gives the dogs a chance to realise that a bike (albeit static) isn't a threat while I talk to the owner.
That sort of acclimatisation training has worked nicely on my dogs, of which one of them used to lunge at motorbikes...

Edit: I'm aware that my colleague cycles far less after an incident with a dog. Dog lead got tangled in their bike, dog was in a reasonably sorry state from what I've gathered on the grapevine, but my colleague messed their hip up pretty badly. They've recently had cortisone injections for it. I also know they're an experienced cyclist and a dog owner themselves...

[Mike_Ayling]

03-10-2021 19-47-32.png

"I saw your dog chasing a man on a bicycle"
"That can't be correct, my dog can't ride a bike!"

[pete75]

Never mind dogs - what about this?

[Tangled Metal]

The old dog and dog owners to blame. Ultimately if a cyclist hits a dog when he or she or they had the opportunity to adjust their motion to avoid it the no matter how much the dog owner is at fault so is the cyclist. If you think any different try doing a few swaps between parties. Dog becomes a young child, are you going to get away with hitting the child? A truck and cyclist, the cyclist dodged up the inside blind spot of a truck? Just two alternatives, do you think the cyclist is getting away with blaming the child? Or the Truck driver with the cyclist. Well I'm certain most cyclists would want the truck driver prosecuted to the utmost and most parents would want the same for the cyclist.

In all those examples all parties could have done many things to prevent issues. Whichever one of those parties I happen to be I look to my choices first and mitigate risks for me and mine. I'm a father, cyclist, van driver and dog owner. Whichever is my main activity at the time gets the same risk reduction attitude. I wish more people spent more time looking at what they can change than complaining about others. As annoying as slowing down or walking your bike past other route users is I can guarantee it's a lot better than hitting them or having conflict.

[pwa]

Yes. I am lots of things, cyclist and dog owner being two of them. I don't want my dog to be a nuisance or danger to anyone, whether they be on a bike or not. But I also want my dog to lead a good life, which means time off the lead. She is a whippet and she experiences real joy when she is let off for a run. So putting these considerations together, I naturally give thought to managing risks. She isn't disciplined enough to walk to heel reliably on a road or a formal cycle track, so those are situations where she must be controlled by a lead. But on forestry tracks where we can walk for an hour and not meet a soul, she is off the lead until we meet somebody who alters the risk level. A horse rider or an MTBer usually. There is the potential for an MTBer to catch me unawares and for me to then fail to get the whippet on a lead in time, so there is a risk level there. But forestry is one of the best sorts of terrain locally for her to be off the lead for hours at a time, so I balance the risk against the benefits. As I said before, we once got the whippet back on the lead in time when a group of MTBers rang their bells to give us notice of their approach, and all was well. Everybody did a little bit to make the situation safer, and everyone came out of it happy.

[Tangled Metal]

I knew people for whom forestry was not a good place to meet their longhound mix lurcher dog off the lead. Not unless they wanted to do a bit of poaching for venison! A good hunting dog follows its instincts when prey appears even with the best training.

I do think pwa has things right. Imo all users need to balance risk not just the dog owners. For every dog you see on your bike it could just as easily be a young child. Just as unpredictable but whereas hitting a dog is if not acceptable won't get the same levels of approbium as you'd get hitting a young child.

[pwa]

I knew people for whom forestry was not a good place to meet their longhound mix lurcher dog off the lead. Not unless they wanted to do a bit of poaching for venison! A good hunting dog follows its instincts when prey appears even with the best training.

I do think pwa has things right. Imo all users need to balance risk not just the dog owners. For every dog you see on your bike it could just as easily be a young child. Just as unpredictable but whereas hitting a dog is if not acceptable won't get the same levels of approbium as you'd get hitting a young child.

Our whippet hasn't seen a deer yet, so we don't know for sure what her reaction will be. She does like to chase after fleeing objects, but deer are big compared to her. Rabbits are more in her league. The danger with cyclists is that she would see running after one as a game. Chasing is what she is good at. She wouldn't attack one. But of course a dog chasing a cyclist, especially one who doesn't know her, is a situation full of danger and stress. I'd be so embarrassed too!

I suppose that in a situation in which I had got things wrong and my whippet did get into a chase situation with a passer-by, I might have to utter those words of assurance: "My dog is playing. She won't bite." Along with an apology. But that would be in a damage limitation situation where I had got it wrong and didn't want it to get even worse. I try to avoid having to do that. It hasn't happened yet.

[deeferdonk]

An excuse for a bit of a rant.

Cycling home from work on Friday. 100kg of me riding an electric assist Brompton, with my big bag of laptop of gubbins mounted on front. Down a wide sustrans shared route that joins the town centre to business park and other workplaces. It is late afternoon so a steady stream of cyclists going down the same path, its busy but its a wide shared path, cyclists can and do travel down here safely at quite reasonable speeds.
I spot a small dog disappearing into the bushes ahead. He is off lead and appears to be without an owner, there are a couple of chaps in the vicinity having a chat but they don't appear to react to the dog or be carrying a lead etc.
I proceed with caution, and dog emerges from bushes directly in front of me and stops. I put on the anchors, only being able to stop in time due to my prior caution and already having slowed. Dog just stands there and looks up at me. I look around for an owner, half thinking its a lost dog and i'm going to have to go to the faff of detaining and handing it over to whoever you do in these circumstances. As i'm looking around my eyes meet with one of the aforementioned gents. He mutters "sorry mate" and then carries on chatting with his hands in pockets, no attempt to catch the dogs collar, or to call him or anything. A few seconds later the dog trots out of my way, continues snuffling about, and I continue on my way - holding my tongue.
I know its a minor thing but just the casual lack of concern for the safety of people an his own dog really shook me.

[Stradageek]

It is generally believed that one of the main reasons people keep dogs is because of the 'unconditional' love they demonstrate for their owners.

Am I alone in believing that the world would be a better place if people learned how to earn unconditional love from other humans rather than retreating into a relationship with a dog?

[Cugel]

It is generally believed that one of the main reasons people keep dogs is because of the 'unconditional' love they demonstrate for their owners.

Am I alone in believing that the world would be a better place if people learned how to earn unconditional love from other humans rather than retreating into a relationship with a dog?

Once - but now long ago - I would have agreed entirely with that sentiment. In truth, I still wishfully-thunk it ..... until yet another human of the all-too-common kind crosses my path with whatever the opposite is of "unconditional love" surrounding them like a baleful miasma.

Now, being a grateful recipient of the Judeo-Christian traditions (not the daft stuff, mind) the other cheek is initially turned if the other human is just behaving as a self-centred little skinbag without doing really serious harm. Unfortunately, there are many who are (actually or potentially) quite eager to do all sorts of degrees of harm, to other humans, dogs and things in general.

Of course the other humans, of various kinds, are probably also avoiding me for various reasons. I can't blame them.

It's a sad thing, but my own behaviour has tended over the years to the avoidance of the human madding crowd (which must mean also avoiding those who might "earn unconditional love") in favour of giving & getting the stuff from two dogs who are well-able to give it by the bucketful.

Still, I also have the ladywife, who is very good at loving, even me! And every now and then, an unavoidable human turns out to be inclined to the "unconditional love" mode and I feel very lucky, whilst also trying to reign in my own self centred skinbagisms.

Cugel

[PedallingSquares]

I knew people for whom forestry was not a good place to meet their longhound mix lurcher dog off the lead. Not unless they wanted to do a bit of poaching for venison! A good hunting dog follows its instincts when prey appears even with the best training.

I agree but a well trained hunting dog will also listen to it's owner and do as it is told.
My dog,a Working Cocker Spaniel,follows all it's instincts and is free to do so until I either call him or blow the whistle.One whistle and he sits,stays and awaits further instruction.Follow this with two whistles and he returns to me.I use a specific gun-dog whistle that he can hear from very far away.He is not trained to work but trained to listen to me/us.
As I stated upthread I still put him back on his lead on shared tracks when I see approaching horses or cyclists even though I don't need to as he shows little interest in either.
One of my bugbears is folk who shout and scream at their dog,which ignores them,then they smile and say"they never listen do they" I usually reply politely "they do if trained correctly".

[pwa]

It is generally believed that one of the main reasons people keep dogs is because of the 'unconditional' love they demonstrate for their owners.

Am I alone in believing that the world would be a better place if people learned how to earn unconditional love from other humans rather than retreating into a relationship with a dog?

Is that what we do? Retreat? I had always thought my relationship with dogs was in addition to my relationship with my wife, my children and my human friends. Not instead of. And a dog gives a different kind of relationship. Simple, quiet companionship on shared walks, requiring little or nothing in the way of conversation. A human life with a dog in it is a richer life.