Cycling UK Forum

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help...

I started out about 4 years ago using spd-sl shoes and had no trouble at all. For various reasons I changed to 2 bolt spd shoes about six months ago and again had no trouble. I then bought a second pair of spd shoes and now get mild pain in the front of my left knee whilst riding and some residual soreness afterwards.

I really want to be able to wear either pair of shoes according to circumstance and don't really understand why there should be such a difference with the new shoes, everything else being equal. The position feels comfortable but clearly something is wrong.

Does anyone have any insight as to why the difference between the pairs of shoes? If it helps, the first pair are Shimano MT7s and the new ones are Giro Rumble VRs. I have the cleats as far back as they'll go in both pairs.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

chrisfarrow64 wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 7:19am I have the cleats as far back as they'll go in both pairs.

I'd start by comparing the position of your foot in relation to the pedal axle with each shoe: fore and aft, lateral rotation, height.

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 7:33am

chrisfarrow64 wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 7:19am I have the cleats as far back as they'll go in both pairs.

I'd start by comparing the position of your foot in relation to the pedal axle with each shoe: fore and aft, lateral rotation, height.

Jonathan

+1

Yes cleat alignment is critical, it's particularly important to equalise float in both directions. Also many overlook the fact that sole thickness can significantly affect saddle height.

As Norman says I’d thoroughly check the float is exactly the same. Clip the empty shoes on and see how far each moves in either direction.
I speak as someone who got it badly wrong when fitting some new cleats. So much so I reverted to flats to clear the pain, similar to yours, and never went back to SPD.

The fact that you are only experiencing pain in your left knee suggests you have an asymmetry issue. That asymmetry could be with the cleat position or with you.

Very few of us are completely symmetrical, it's likely that your left leg will be a slightly different length to your right leg. Its also possible that your left foot may point outwards or inwards to a greater or lesser extent than the right foot. Don't assume that the correct cleat position will be identical on both sides.

Thanks for the responses....

Jdsk wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 7:33am

chrisfarrow64 wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 7:19am I have the cleats as far back as they'll go in both pairs.

I'd start by comparing the position of your foot in relation to the pedal axle with each shoe: fore and aft, lateral rotation, height.

Seems quite tricky to accurately compare. Having made a greater effort to get the position of the cleat correct relative to the ball of my foot (rather than in comparison to the previos shoes which give no trouble) they appear to be very similar. The pics show the new (troublesome) shoe of the left. It appear to be slightly further to the right than the good shoe, but the outside edges of the shoes are actually identical in distance from the crank so it may just be shoe shape....or not... Float appears to be greater on the new shoes so shouldn't be the cause?

Norman H wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 9:12am Also many overlook the fact that sole thickness can significantly affect saddle height.

Ahh.....hadn't considered that at all. Seems the new shoes are about 5mm thinner in the sole. Is that enough to make a difference? Presumably I'd want to lower the saddle to compensate?

Norman H wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 9:45am The fact that you are only experiencing pain in your left knee suggests you have an asymmetry issue.

Good point. However, I don't think that's the issue here. The Shimanos and a previous pair of Northwave 3 bolt jobbies gave me no trouble at all.


Any thoughts on the photos? ....they've posted in reverse order....the to one is heel twisted in, the second is heel twisted out and the last is central.

chrisfarrow64 wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 10:16amSeems the new shoes are about 5mm thinner in the sole. Is that enough to make a difference?

It could be. Musculoskeletal stuff is tricky, and if you're near the edge of the envelope a small difference can be all that's needed.

Can you experiment with a thick insole?

Jonathan

I'm driven to raise my saddle 4 or 5 mm when I wear my winter boots, as they have a thicker sole, so yes, I think you need to lower your saddle when you have 5mm thinner soles.
And if lowering your saddle 5mm stops your knee hurting with the thinner soles, I recommend you consider lowering your saddle anyway. You are much more likely to hurt your knees by having a too-high saddle than a too-low saddle, and 5mm is a small margin for error.
Why do you need a safety margin on your saddle height? Because one day when you are tired, and your legs are stiff, you might need that extra few mm to pedal smoothly.

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... -position/
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... n-it-be-2/

Have you checked that the problem resolves itself if you go back to the old shoes, just to make sure you're not drawing post hoc conclusions?

An extra 5mm could well cause issues through overreaching, particularly if you normally pedal with your toe dipped at the bottom of the pedal stroke . It might also suggest that your left leg is a fraction shorter than the right. Lowering the saddle would sort it but it would have to be reset each time you changed shoes. An alternative is to fit spacers beneath the cleats.

It's hard to judge from the photos but there seems to more heel out float available from the central position than heel in. However this tells us little unless we know what your normal pedalling position is. You should aim to equalise float either side of your normal foot position. Your cleats look to be set up to favour someone who habitually pedals with their heels pointing slightly outwards, ie slightly pigeon toed.

Many thanks folks, few things there to try.

axel_knutt wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022, 11:10am Have you checked that the problem resolves itself if you go back to the old shoes, just to make sure you're not drawing post hoc conclusions?

Good point, and yes, I have tried using the Shimanos again and they are still trouble free.

I'll try to work through a few things in a methodical fashion...probably starting with the saddle height as that seems the easiest.

Thanks all.