Are Reiss & Mueller worth the extra cost?

[reohn2]

I'm aware of economies of scale for m/cycles to e-bikes but even so a modestly powered say Japanese motorcycle comes in at between £4,500 and £5,000 whilst a decent e-bike cost £2,500> and Reiss and Mueller prices start at £4,000>
It doesn't stack up considering the engineering that goes into both.

Is it any different to comparing a perfectly adequate £700 Halford Hybrid and one of the touring bikes you'd choose?
The comparison is slightly wrong, another E-bike with the same battery and motor is likely to be £3,000+ and even then it'd usually possible to see where economies have been made.

The £700 Halfords bike is overpriced,as are e-bikes IMO.
Monetary outlay for what you get in return is well in favour of the motorcycle over a R&M e-bike is what I'm comparing.
Take this scooter @ £5,500 as a comparison:- https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/ran ... rview.html
Or take this motorcycle at £6,400:- https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/ran ... rview.html
to any mid range quality e-bike at half the price,compare it with any R&M e-bike and the figures from an engineering value for money POV simply don't stack up.

I'm not having a pop at e-bikes I think they're great,I'm pointing out the vast difference in value for money from a manufacturing/engineering perspective.

[PH]

Monetary outlay for what you get in return is well in favour of the motorcycle over a R&M e-bike is what I'm comparing.

I really don't see any point it comparing apples and oranges.

[reohn2]

Monetary outlay for what you get in return is well in favour of the motorcycle over a R&M e-bike is what I'm comparing.

I really don't see any point it comparing apples and oranges.

I do from an engineering what you pay for what you get POV,which is what I'm looking at.

[hemo]

Bosh and the other mid drive brands are small fish in the world of ebikes, overall the only account for approx. 5% of motor types used on ebikes, worldwide the majority are still hub motored bikes.

[reohn2]

Bosh and the other mid drive brands are small fish in the world of ebikes, overall the only account for approx. 5% of motor types used on ebikes, worldwide the majority are still hub motored bikes.

I'm aware Chinese mid drive and hub motors are the majority,but in the R&M context we're discussing Bosch are the dominant supplier.

[Johnocyprus]

I think reohn2 makes a valid point, some ebikes are obscenely overpriced. A couple of years I was considering buying a R and M but came to my senses and instead bought a couple of ebikes S/H to see what I actually liked, I sold them roughly for what I paid for them after establishing what I wanted was lightness, simplicity and hub drive, I ended up buying a new Whoosh Faro which I’m pleased with and at £999 is I think pretty good value. I haven’t ridden a R an M but I doubt it’s six or seven times as good as the Whoosh. I also have a Honda c125 Supercub which costs 3.6k new, even allowing for economies of scale I don’t know how anybody could justify spending 6k upwards on a R And M. Their poor S/H value reflects their true worth, I think.

[PH]

I think reohn2 makes a valid point, some ebikes are obscenely overpriced.

"You could buy a car for that"
It's an old cliché best left to the petrolheads
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/you- ... ably-suck/

[reohn2]

I think reohn2 makes a valid point, some ebikes are obscenely overpriced.

"You could buy a car for that"
It's an old cliché best left to the petrolheads
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/you- ... ably-suck/

But that's not my argument though,it has to be said that some e-bikes are grossly overpriced,if you take the motor,battery and electronics out of an R&M bike or any high end e-bike you're left with a nominally priced slightly above average bike,put the motor,electronics and bike together and it's not something magically worth £4,500+.
I've ridden R&Ms they're good bikes,but not £4,000+ good from an engineering perspective.

As an aside but to illustrate a point,as Johnocyprus mentions Honda Cubs.
In the mid '60's my elder brother bought a brand new Honda 50cc Cub,for the 15mile round trip to work(2miles of which was a gravel/cinder double track road) and as a general runabout.
He ran that bike for almost 15 years,it must have done well in excess of 50,000 miles without any problems whatsoever other than tyres and he used to run them until they were bald.I used to service it for him when he asked, which wasn't very often and nowhere near as often as should due to his stinginess,he was never known to clean it.It never missed a beat.
I've no reason to believe today's Honda Cub would be any different,in fact probably much better.

[saudidave]

But that's not my argument though,it has to be said that some e-bikes are grossly overpriced,if you take the motor,battery and electronics out of an R&M bike or any high end e-bike you're left with a nominally priced slightly above average bike,put the motor,electronics and bike together and it's not something magically worth £4,500+.
I've ridden R&Ms they're good bikes,but not £4,000+ good from an engineering perspective.

As an aside but to illustrate a point,as Johnocyprus mentions Honda Cubs.
In the mid '60's my elder brother bought a brand new Honda 50cc Cub,for the 15mile round trip to work(2miles of which was a gravel/cinder double track road) and as a general runabout.
He ran that bike for almost 15 years,it must have done well in excess of 50,000 miles without any problems whatsoever other than tyres and he used to run them until they were bald.I used to service it for him when he asked, which wasn't very often and nowhere near as often as should due to his stinginess,he was never known to clean it.It never missed a beat.
I've no reason to believe today's Honda Cub would be any different,in fact probably much better.

R & M are more expensive because of two factors:

1) They are made in relatively small volumes in Germany, where labour costs are high.Whilst lots of the running gear is stock shimano kit, the motors are German too, albeit Bosch are a relatively large volume product. The frames though are very well made and manufactured in Germany. That's why they are expensive, as are Bromptons which are manufactured in London.

2) They have a niche market and as a result can charge a premium because the average purchaser is wealthy and wants the prestige of the badge, regardless of cost. Think Porsche, Bentley, Aston Martin et al. You can buy a great Hyundai Tucson 4 x 4 for £40k or a Bentley 4 x 4 for £140k. They both do the same thing, the Hyundai will probably last longer in reality too, but one has more street cred than the other

[reohn2]

........2) They have a niche market and as a result can charge a premium because the average purchaser is wealthy and wants the prestige of the badge, regardless of cost. Think Porsche, Bentley, Aston Martin et al. You can buy a great Hyundai Tucson 4 x 4 for £40k or a Bentley 4 x 4 for £140k. They both do the same thing, the Hyundai will probably last longer in reality too, but one has more street cred than the other

Thanks for proving my point.