RANS Stratus XP vs Nazca Paseo vs Lightning P-38

[UpWrong]

The trike has gone so I'm left with these 3. Thought I'd do a gradual compare and contrast to help me decide on any further changes. I have no immediate plans to sell or buy at the moment. When bikes pop up for sale on eBay or on this forum it helps to be reminded on why I've ended up with these 3 whilst the Giro, Grasshopper and Metabikes for example were sold on.

They are all little wheel front/big wheel rear configured. The XP came as 26/26 but I changed it to 20/26. On a LWB the front is lightly loaded so the RR of the small wheel isn't a big factor and it's more aero than a large wheel. A small front puts feet nearer the ground, the large rear smooths out the ride as felt by the body.

They all have steel frames. I think aluminium is a very good material for 'bents since it allows relatively light oversized, stiff tubes. This is good because frame flex tends to be an issue with 'bents. Also Al doesn't rust, which makes running without mudguards less harmful for example. So, a bit surprising that all 3 are steel.

The P-38 and XP are very triangulated to provide rigidity. The Paseo isn't triangulated and has the heaviest frame of the 3.

The P-38 and the XP don't have suspension. The Paseo came with full suspension but I changed to a fixed front fork, partly to lower the front end to make mounting/dismounting easier, partly to reduce weight. Suspension forks, even the carbon Saso/Meks, are heavy and non-aero.

The Paseo has a carbon hard-shell seat, the XP has a solid seat pan and mesh back, the P-38 has a full mesh seat, base and back.

More to follow ...

[firedfromthecircus]

That's an interesting trio. Three very nice bikes. The P-38 is one I'd love to own myself to sit alongside my Ryan.

When you pull a bike out to go for a ride what makes you pick the one you do? Do you have different purposes in mind for each?

[UpWrong]

That's an interesting trio. Three very nice bikes. The P-38 is one I'd love to own myself to sit alongside my Ryan.

When you pull a bike out to go for a ride what makes you pick the one you do? Do you have different purposes in mind for each?

That's a good question. It's like having 3 children, they are all loved and cherished even though they are different.

The P-38 is the novelty ride at the moment, still dialling it in really. The XP is the easiest to ride in traffic, or to negotiate difficult junctions. It also handles bad road surfaces very well. But an SWB is perhaps more exciting and rewarding to ride. The handling is more responsive and I feel very satisfied after a ride, like an acrobat who has given a successul performance. The P-38 and Paseo are more sports car like, the XP more a saloon, though it's not slower just more sedate. I don't enjoy uphills on the Paseo though. I guess the 38 degree seat angle becomes 28 degrees up a 10% slope and I feel insecure. Not a problem when riding in Holland of course!

[UpWrong]

All 3 were built up from framesets, so wheels and gears were what I wanted or had available at the time. They all also have above seat steering with open-cockpit style bars rather then a tiller bar. They all have fixed risers. I had tiller bars on the Metabikes and on an Origami and didn't get on with them

The Paseo has V-brakes, the XP has a rear V-brake and a front Tektro Aquila cable disc, the P-38 has Aquila disc brakes front and rear. .I've not been a fan of disc brakes although I am happy with the performance of the Aquilas. I prefer them to the BB7s I had on 3 trikes and the Metabikes, which were difficult to set up and prone to squeal. However V-brakes do tend to get in the way of the chain routing on SWBs and I guess will wear out the rims, particularly on a smaller front wheel.

I've mentioned chain routing. No power idler or chain tubes on the RANS. So nice not to have parasitic drag. The P-38 has power idler and no tubes, and again the chain moves freely. There's not much deflection on the power idler. The Paseo has power and return idlers, chain tubes, and the chain lines cross.The drag on back pedalling bugs me. I'm not sure how much power is consumed when riding, but I'm looking at options.I reckon it's feasible to discard the return idler and drop the return line so that the chain lines don't cross but only by discarding the front V-brake. I'd leave the tubes on, maybe shortening the return one. I'd save the weight of the return idler and guard and a bit of chain but I think it could save a couple of watts in lost power. Something to consider. The fork on the Paseo is a Bacchetta aluminium disc one, so can go the disc route. Or I can go with a drum brake wheel. I bought one from SJS a while back, though I did buy that with the XP in mind. The XP has a Halo Sub4 rim (24mm internal width) running a 49mm Maxxis DTH tyre. I was thinking of changing to a narrower rim and tyre.

EDIT: think I'd go with the drum brake wheel on the Paseo to improve the chain line. Can always rebuild the disk wheel on the RANS with a narrower rim.

[UpWrong]

Suspension, Only on the Paseo. The XP and the P-38 do a good job without it though. The single-pivot suspension on the Paseo is one of the best around. The pivot itself is large diameter and sturdy, and the chain line is almost perfect, being unconstrained and passing only marginally above the pivot point. Ideally I think it should be slightly below the pivot point. Regardless, I haven't sensed any suspension bob associated with pedalling, not even with a 42T first gear on the cassette. I think it's superior to HP Velotechnic suspension.

Seat height vs BB heights:

P-38: 22", 26.5"
Paseo: 21", 24"
XP: 21", 14"

It would be interesting to calculate approximate hip angles.

EDITED: to correct thoughts on ideal chain line

[UpWrong]

Took the P-38 out today to test the SRAM X-9 RD and X-7 shifter which replaced Shimano Deore/Alivio kit. The SRAM is vastly superior.

I felt very at home on the bike, comfortable in traffic and at junctions. It is the best balanced and best handling overall of the 3 bikes. I'm not totally sold on the mesh seat base and pad. it's hard to move around and re-position on it whilst riding. The only fly in the ointment is that my calf muscles felt tight, so not sure if cramp might be an issue on longer rides. Hope to do one next weekend.

[UpWrong]

24 miles on the P-38 today including a category 4 climb. On the descent I hit 40.1 mph. Average 8.9 mph. Guess I'll have to do the same ride on the other bikes for comparison.

[UpWrong]

On a couple of occasions difficulty reaching the ground caused anxiety on the P-38. To launch it I have to lean the bike to the left, and if I have launch failure then I have to sit up quick to get the tippy toes of both feet on the ground. Hill starts in second gear on a cambered road covered in gravel were tricky.

Also I had trouble standing up if coming to a halt on a steep slope. The fixed riser gets in the way of standing vertically.

Not sure how I would fare with loaded panniers in the above circumstances.

EDIT: I could switch to a 559/349 wheelset to bring me an inch nearer the ground which would be nice, but the bigger wheels roll better and are smoother of course.

[UpWrong]

On reflection I realize I am anxious around junctions on the Paseo with traffic which isn't true with the other 2 bikes. My balance and ability to look around become more difficult with the more laid back riding position. So I'm having thoughts of selling it on, probably as a frameset with the original Saso/Meks carbon fork. No urgency although May is a good selling month.

[UpWrong]

One year later and a lot has changed.

The XP has gone from 406/559 to 559/622 with fast 28mm tyres. It is my fastest bike and the only one with two big wheels.

The P-38 has gone from 406/622 to 349/559 to 406/559. It's my lightest bike.

The Paseo has had an AZUB fibre glass seat fitted which allows a slightly more upright ride. It's my only bike with (rear) suspension.

And the Bella frameset with titanium fork awaits attention. I guess one of the four will go, but I don't know which.

[Stradageek]

It seems we all go through this 'rationalising' process, though I have mostly done so by trying rather than buying additional bikes.

The end result is similar however:

Bacchetta Strada, fastest all rounder but dry weather only
HP Velotechnik Speedmachine, comfortable, all weather, heavy, yet the fastest on a windy day
BikeE, urban recumbent, slow, upright, comfortable, manoeuvrable
Hase Kettwiesel, when roads are slippy

[UpWrong]

It seems we all go through this 'rationalising' process, though I have mostly done so by trying rather than buying additional bikes.

The end result is similar however:

Bacchetta Strada, fastest all rounder but dry weather only
HP Velotechnik Speedmachine, comfortable, all weather, heavy, yet the fastest on a windy day
BikeE, urban recumbent, slow, upright, comfortable, manoeuvrable
Hase Kettwiesel, when roads are slippy

The dilemma with recumbent bikes is you need extended time to make all kind of fit adjustments and to decide if it's right for you. It would probably make most sense to hire a bike for a week from D'tek, assuming he had the model or similar in stock, and put some good miles in before deciding whether to purchase, either the same bike or new. The one time I tried before I bought, it didn't work out. That was up ajd down the road outside BikeFix in London. I thought I'd be fine with bike, so bought it, but couldn't get the hang of it reliably.

Largely I've been looking for speed within the constraints of what I could comfortably manage. For tall and/or flexible people I imagine that a higher racer fits the bit. For the rest of us it gets more complicated.

[Stradageek]

Think you're right on the last point, if I had to own just one recumbent I think I'd get a Bacchetta Giro 26

[UpWrong]

One year later and a lot has changed.

The XP has gone from 406/559 to 559/622 with fast 28mm tyres. It is my fastest bike and the only one with two big wheels.

The P-38 has gone from 406/622 to 349/559 to 406/559. It's my lightest bike.

The Paseo has had an AZUB fibre glass seat fitted which allows a slightly more upright ride. It's my only bike with (rear) suspension.

And the Bella frameset with titanium fork awaits attention. I guess one of the four will go, but I don't know which.

3 months later and the Paseo has a different set of wheels with wider rims and wider tyres. It also has lowered gearing and I softened the suspension. Why I hadn't done that before, I don't know. The mods have made it a lot more enjoyable to ride. Still no decision on what stays and what goes.

[UpWrong]

I think it would be worth going back to an early plan to ride each of the 3 alternatively over my most ridden circuit to best gauge the differences both in performance and feel. I have slightly tweeked the route to avoid traffic and difficult junctions in the 2 miles nearest home which was a disincentive to getting out sometimes. The route is a bit over 16 miles with 3 short climbs, one of which I have only ever managed once on a recumbent.

I took the P-38 out yesterday. I noticed the closed position relative to the Paseo and the lack of suspension. Unfortunately it was slipping in 2nd gear so today's job is to check and adjust the derailleur hanger alignment.