148mph

[ossie]

So - remind me... why do we sell cars that'll do over double the so-called speed-limit? (see here)

...probably because you can't get your willy extended on the nhs and the 'grow it big' cream doesn't work....

(Sorry, administrators)

...have you tried the cream then

[reohn2]

I'm not sure I'm the first person on a thread to interject and answer a point directed towards another, who may simply log off for whatever reason...or do we leave it hanging like the sword of damocles, almost damning in its own silence, when in fact the answer is readily available. Happy to help.

No,you answered what you thought was the answer to the question I asked Maillot Rouge,you may be right but that doesn't answer definitively the question I asked him which is only a calculated guess by you.

I'm willing to wait for him to answer so no hanging swords here,it was after all a simple question requiring a simple answer from the only person who really knows the true answer.

As for you helping,you haven't,you've just complicated the issue by bringing German motoring into the thread when the question was about speeding on UK roads.

My original question to Maillot Rouge regarding his motorcycle was:-

Where do you expect to be using it's full performance potential on UK roads?

A simple question wouldn't you agree?

His answer was:-

The same places that I and 1000s of British motorcyclists do week in week out all over the UK.I’m not implying that I or anyone else will do 190mph every day/week/month but I would be willing to gamble most with a motorcycle capable will do it,or get close to it just to see if their machine really will.The rest of the time you can still use the machine to its potential without going much over 100mph and still have a good time.I ride with guys 20/25 years older than me who are showing no signs of slowing down.You just have to be sensible about where and when you do it

An ambiguous answer needing clarification wouldn't you agree?

[Tangled Metal]

Where do you expect to be using it's full performance potential on UK roads?

My BMW does 155 mph and 0-60 in under 5 seconds. I can do the latter legally on UK roads and the 155mph either on the Autobahn or any UK 'track' of which there are many. I'm not sure it's a prerequisite to buying a car that you must always use it on UK 'roads'.

But that's not the question I asked,which is in the quote of my post!

Do you expect to use the full performance potential of your pushbikes?

It's a nonentity question in that nobody will use any machine they buy to its full performance potential. Will you be touring round the world on your touring bike or win the tour de France on your road bike? If not then potentially you're not using its full potential so why buy it? Seriously, why buy something designed to perform better than you'll ever need?

I go back to the opinion that its not the bike that's the issue but the user and lack of adequate deterrent or enforcement.

Let's put it this way. Two guys with the same mountain bike riding downhill. One has cheap mechanical brakes with 160 rotors, the other well set up hydraulic with 210 rotors. Which one is likely to be safer? The one ridden by someone with great riding skills but the better brakes can only help. I hope that explains benefits of cats designed fit greater speeds but also the importance of factoring the human and making allowance for them.

[cycle tramp]

So - remind me... why do we sell cars that'll do over double the so-called speed-limit? (see here)

...probably because you can't get your willy extended on the nhs and the 'grow it big' cream doesn't work....

(Sorry, administrators)

...have you tried the cream then

[reohn2]

..... I go back to the opinion that its not the bike that's the issue but the user and lack of adequate deterrent or enforcement..

We're in violent agreement on that,see my previous posts regarding a lack of effective policing and punishment.

Regarding skill levels,the vast majority of road users don't have the skillset to handle high speeds nor do they appreciate the state of UK roads or the potential hazards on them posed at those higher speeds.

In the past 12moths I've come across three single vehicle "accidents" two motorcycles (both sportsbikes) with wrecked £15k+ bikes and very lucky though bruised up riders looking very sorry for themselves,one had slid off on a patch of diesel that I'd spotted well before I saw him and was able to take evasive action due to my slower speed.
The other was a pretty knocked up chap with his wrecked bike sat upsidedown on top of a drystone wall,his mate had phoned for an ambulance and was blaiming the uneven/bumpy minor road's surface for the cause,the uneven road has been like that for at least 15years to my knowledge.
The third one was an unidentified sports car,an Audi I think stuck in a field after going through a hedge,the driver failing to negotiate a bend but unhurt.
Cause of all three was IMHO driving too fast for the road conditions.

[ossie]

Do you expect to use the full performance potential of your pushbikes?

It's a nonentity question in that nobody will use any machine they buy to its full performance potential. Will you be touring round the world on your touring bike or win the tour de France on your road bike? If not then potentially you're not using its full potential so why buy it? Seriously, why buy something designed to perform better than you'll ever need?

I go back to the opinion that its not the bike that's the issue but the user and lack of adequate deterrent or enforcement.

Let's put it this way. Two guys with the same mountain bike riding downhill. One has cheap mechanical brakes with 160 rotors, the other well set up hydraulic with 210 rotors. Which one is likely to be safer? The one ridden by someone with great riding skills but the better brakes can only help. I hope that explains benefits of cats designed fit greater speeds but also the importance of factoring the human and making allowance for them.

I have five bikes. Two road bikes. The potential of the road bikes is literally in weight so yes they are used to their full potential when climbing as a lighter bike aides me as it would anyone. They're not disc brake though so you could argue on descents I'm not using them to the potential of disc brakes. If I had the latter I would descend faster knowing I had better braking performance. You can argue the same with cars and their braking performance.

I have two touring bikes. One is a 700c equipped alu framed, carbon forked job that I physically use to my true potential. The fact someone else can use it better for their potential is irrespective in the same way that someone can drive a performance car faster than me...stick Lewis Hamilton in a Skoda and he'll probably still be faster around a track than me in my BMW.

So you can use something to your full performance potential but it will be limited to your personal ability.

I totally agree about lack of deterrent and enforcement, however car insurance premiums on newer and younger drivers probably had the greatest impact on performance / lack of experience and ability - going back to the 80's / 90's .This has continued in my experience having got three kids through tests and into cars over the last 13 years where they are still literally shackled.

[Tangled Metal]

Your potential isn't the potential of the bikes. A light, road bike might offset you a benefit but a better climbed will get more out of it than you. Put froome on your bike and the bike might show its full potential. Put that Beaumont round the world tourist on your touring bike and it'll do more I guess.

Having a 189mph motorbike then riding it at 70mph max on UK roads is the same as riding a £3k road bike or tourer and not using its potential, but in both cases they'll be a better ride than something with less performance. A better handing bike or motor bike is likely to keep you safer even when not pushing it or using it to it's full potential. The idea being just because a machine can doesn't mean you will. Applies to motorbikes and push bikes equally.

[reohn2]

........Having a 189mph motorbike then riding it at 70mph max on UK roads is the same as riding a £3k road bike or tourer and not using its potential, but in both cases they'll be a better ride than something with less performance. A better handing bike or motor bike is likely to keep you safer even when not pushing it or using it to it's full potential. The idea being just because a machine can doesn't mean you will. Applies to motorbikes and push bikes equally.

The problems begin when drivers or riders of high performance vehicles 'think' their abilities match their vehicle,the three incidences I mentioned above seem to bear that out,or at least two of them do the third who'd slid off on a diesel may not have crashed had he been more attentive,aft all myself and another motorcyclist who stopped to see if he was OK had seen and avoided it.
Which in turn brings me to another point,last week whilst on my motorcycle I had a Pheasant fly across directly in front of me I couldn't avoid it and caught it with top of my windscreen and top of my helmet thankfully I was only doing 25mph at the time so no damage done,but no matter how skilled a driver/rider you are you just never know what will happen next.

I witness some of the most appalling driving/riding whenever I use the roads,the vast majority of it has haste and therefore speeding at it's heart.

[pwa]

........Having a 189mph motorbike then riding it at 70mph max on UK roads is the same as riding a £3k road bike or tourer and not using its potential, but in both cases they'll be a better ride than something with less performance. A better handing bike or motor bike is likely to keep you safer even when not pushing it or using it to it's full potential. The idea being just because a machine can doesn't mean you will. Applies to motorbikes and push bikes equally.

The problems begin when drivers or riders of high performance vehicle 'think' their abilities match their vehicle,the three incidences I mentioned above seem to bear that out,or at least two of them do the third who'd slid off on a diesel may not have crashed had he been more attentive,aft all myself and another motorcyclist who stopped to see if he was OK had seen and avoided it.

I witness some of the most appalling driving/riding whenever I use the roads,the vast majority of it has haste and therefore speeding at it's heart.

And with any vehicle, including a bicycle, you have to be anticipating problems you have not seen, such as gravel on the road surface. You can find your planned line around a bend needing rapid adjustment if you hit gravel. If you are already on the limit, you will be over onto the opposite carriageway or into a ditch.

[reohn2]

And with any vehicle, including a bicycle, you have to be anticipating problems you have not seen, such as gravel on the road surface. You can find your planned line around a bend needing rapid adjustment if you hit gravel.

Exactly!
And the higher the speed the less time to read the road and react to any obstacle that presents itself,the inexperienced,less skilled or over confident tend to panic in such situations.

[Tangled Metal]

Agreed. Overestimated ability can cause harm, but that's the same principle with bikes. The only difference is severity of damage. The issue is still the same, stopping people overestimating ability and using a tool outside of their ability.

Is it better to lower the potential of the vehicle or raise the ability level and responsibility of those able to own them?

I took a road safety course a few weeks after passing my test at 17yo. It changed my view of driving, hazard awareness, ability and even applied to my cycling. I still got a speeding ticket, 3mph over the 70mph limit on a quiet motorway in dry conditions in my 20s BTW. I never got another. If ownership of a 148mph car came with training and the knowledge it's getting crushed if you mess up then perhaps that's better than limiting speed. A better trained driver and a strong deterrent that's enforced might be a long term solution. Especially since most vehicle limiters can be overcome.

Indeed most regulations too. Look at bike exhausts. Meet noise tests but they're still way too noisy for most bikes. Why? The test is ludicrously easy to beat, it's not in conditions the bike is designed to be used in and it really isn't meant to reduce noise imho. If you don't test for half the toxic emissions you won't get a failed test with a vw, other car brands have defeated tests too by various means.

[Tangled Metal]

But speed capability doesn't mean you're going to speed for conditions. Doesn't it seem like speed limiting cars and bikes is about not tackling the real issue the user?

[reohn2]

Agreed. Overestimated ability can cause harm, but that's the same principle with bikes. The only difference is severity of damage.

Generally I'd agree,though the only bones I've broken have been due to cycling crashes .

The issue is still the same, stopping people overestimating ability and using a tool outside of their ability.

Is it better to lower the potential of the vehicle or raise the ability level and responsibility of those able to own them?

Both.

........ If ownership of a 148mph car came with training and the knowledge it's getting crushed if you mess up then perhaps that's better than limiting speed. A better trained driver and a strong deterrent that's enforced might be a long term solution. Especially since most vehicle limiters can be overcome

Wouldn't it be better if vehicles were limited both in power output and top speed then if someone removed the limiter wpthey'd stand out like a sore thumb when they used such power?
Better driver training is a good way forward and provides drivers with a better skillset,but it doesn't guarantee safe driving.
The reasons people speed and drive weecklessly is because they know there's little chance of being caught,reduce that chance by effective policing and drivers will calm their driving.
I ride and drive a lot into North Wales where the police are on the ball and present,virtually no one speeds especially in 30,40 and 50mph zones occasionally you get the odd loonie in the 60mph zones

Indeed most regulations too. Look at bike exhausts. Meet noise tests but they're still way too noisy for most bikes. Why? The test is ludicrously easy to beat, it's not in conditions the bike is designed to be used in and it really isn't meant to reduce noise imho. If you don't test for half the toxic emissions you won't get a failed test with a vw, other car brands have defeated tests too by various means.

I totally agree about motorcycle noise levels some are ridiculous,andnthennthere's the ludicrous excuse of "loud pipes safe lives" which has been proved to be no more than an empty slogan with any foundation.

[peetee]

I suspect that current high fuel prices may help with the acceptability of a general reduction in motorway speed limits

I doubt it. Around here it certainly doesn’t seem to stop people speeding, accelerating hard and running the engine while sittting in a car park.

[reohn2]

I suspect that current high fuel prices may help with the acceptability of a general reduction in motorway speed limits

I doubt it. Around here it certainly doesn’t seem to stop people speeding, accelerating hard and running the engine while sittting in a car park.

I'm seeing a slowing of car traffic on motorways,it's only slight but noticeable,but for other road driving not noticed any difference.