148mph

[pwa]

Agreed. Overestimated ability can cause harm, but that's the same principle with bikes. The only difference is severity of damage.

Generally I'd agree,though the only bones I've broken have been due to cycling crashes .

The issue is still the same, stopping people overestimating ability and using a tool outside of their ability.

Is it better to lower the potential of the vehicle or raise the ability level and responsibility of those able to own them?

Both.

........ If ownership of a 148mph car came with training and the knowledge it's getting crushed if you mess up then perhaps that's better than limiting speed. A better trained driver and a strong deterrent that's enforced might be a long term solution. Especially since most vehicle limiters can be overcome

Wouldn't it be better if vehicles were limited both in power output and top speed then if someone removed the limiter wpthey'd stand out like a sore thumb when they used such power?
Better driver training is a good way forward and provides drivers with a better skillset,but it doesn't guarantee safe driving.
The reasons people speed and drive weecklessly is because they know there's little chance of being caught,reduce that chance by effective policing and drivers will calm their driving.
I ride and drive a lot into North Wales where the police are on the ball and present,virtually no one speeds especially in 30,40 and 50mph zones occasionally you get the odd loonie in the 60mph zones

Indeed most regulations too. Look at bike exhausts. Meet noise tests but they're still way too noisy for most bikes. Why? The test is ludicrously easy to beat, it's not in conditions the bike is designed to be used in and it really isn't meant to reduce noise imho. If you don't test for half the toxic emissions you won't get a failed test with a vw, other car brands have defeated tests too by various means.

I totally agree about motorcycle noise levels some are ridiculous,andnthennthere's the ludicrous excuse of "loud pipes safe lives" which has been proved to be no more than an empty slogan with any foundation.

The one saving grace of motorcycle loonies (as opposed to car driving loonies) is that more often than not they just kill or maim themselves. Car driving loonies are more likely to take out some innocent person when their antics result in disaster.

I cannot see why a top speed limiter cannot be required on all new road vehicles. Okay, someone might argue that in some extreme scenario you might get out of a sticky situation by being able to accelerate to 80mph briefly to complete an overtake without having a head-on collision, but even if we accept that, there is no reason a vehicle needs to be able to do more than 100mph. And these days, restricting a vehicle that way would be easy and affordable for manufacturers to do.

[Bonefishblues]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volvo/106 ... %20onwards.

[mattheus]

The one saving grace of motorcycle loonies (as opposed to car driving loonies) is that more often than not they just kill or maim themselves. Car driving loonies are more likely to take out some innocent person when their antics result in disaster.

Agreed. I always have a bit more ... not sure of the right word .. empathy? for bikers. They're much more vulnerable, like me on a push-bike, and so IN GENERAL I feel they have a lot more respect for their environment, hazards etc,

I just wish they were a little quieter round town and at cafés ...

[Maillot Rouge]

My point is in my quote I'm not sure it's a prerequisite to buying a car that you must always use it on UK 'roads' (Likewise motorcycles)

I could be in Germany in a matter of hours where I could choose to use that performance, or on a track up the road. Many people buy these cars to use at circuits such as the Nürburgring, motorcycles the Isle of Man etc.

You're not getting this are you?
My question to Maillot Rouge was where could he use his motorcycle's performance to it's full potential in the UK not in Germany!

I do get it and he / she answered it as far as I can see The same places that I and 1000s of British motorcyclists do week in week out all over the UK - you can also add car owners into that equation which was the original post. Perhaps you're unaware of these 'outlets' to utilise performance, notwithstanding the thousands who go abroad.

Pick a nice stretch of road anywhere,or anywhere I’ve been so farand I,and many others can use our motorcycle to its potential.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Why does the UK still have lower motorway speed limits than many EU countries?70mph/112kph seems too low.81mph/120kph seems to be a reasonable speed.
The question was asked why make cars that can do double or treble the UK limit,it’s because there is a demand there.
I certainly would not buy a motorcycle that was restricted to 70mph(UK) or 120kph(EU),my motorcycle will do almost 90mph/144kph in 1st gear and is restricted to 189mph/304kph.That is what I paid for!

What you paid for it to be speed restricted

[pwa]

Watch the Welsh TV news any sunny weekend in the summer and you can rely on a small news item (usually just a few seconds) about one or two fatal motorcycle incidents on roads popular with speeding motorcyclists. Usually they hurt nobody but themselves, so apart from the cost to the emergency services it is their choice and their risk, but it is just so depressing. It is like hearing about people jumping off high bridges.

[thirdcrank]

Data from the Department for Transport also shows that motorcycle users account for just 0.8 percent of vehicular traffic, but make up 26% percent of all those killed or seriously injured.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk ... -wales.pdf

[reohn2]

Watch the Welsh TV news any sunny weekend in the summer and you can rely on a small news item (usually just a few seconds) about one or two fatal motorcycle incidents on roads popular with speeding motorcyclists. Usually they hurt nobody but themselves, so apart from the cost to the emergency services it is their choice and their risk, but it is just so depressing. It is like hearing about people jumping off high bridges.

It's usually people riding beyond their capabilities that come to grief,people think they're a better rider than they are.
As you say it's depressing.

[reohn2]

Pick a nice stretch of road anywhere,or anywhere I’ve been so farand I,and many others can use our motorcycle to its potential.

Thanks for you reply.

[Tangled Metal]

So limited at 70mph and that will help in 20mph zones will it? Extreme range but highlights the point. Tech isn't there to limit to safe levels everywhere but perhaps modifying drivers might get results at all speed limits.

Limiting cars top speeds isn't a solution to anything long term. At the moment.

My view is enforcement, tough penalties and no hardship loophole at all. Points lead to bans at 12 points with full retest. If I could I'd make drivers caught with excess speed press the button on the car crusher on their own car. If under finance tough luck you're paying for a crushed car! Motorbikes and cars have a sound limit on their exhausts at all revs and in real use. Crushed if fail.

[ossie]

Data from the Department for Transport also shows that motorcycle users account for just 0.8 percent of vehicular traffic, but make up 26% percent of all those killed or seriously injured.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk ... -wales.pdf

22% of motorcyle fatalities between 2015-20 involved no other vehicle according to Govt stats. Consistent factors in those that did were Driver or rider failed to look properly, Driver or rider failed to judge other person`s path or speed, Driver or rider careless, reckless or in a hurry. So Think Bike' always comes to mind.

Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users and as a cyclist I can't help but feel a degree of empathy. I also know many motorcyclists and the vast majority are extremely responsible. There's an onus on other road users to recognise this vulnerability.

[Tangled Metal]

Think car comes more to my mind!

Of course I'm annoyed by think bike campaign having lived, cycled and driven in an area popular with bikers of all persuasions. Too many times I've driven past a think bike sign only to encounter two bikers taking the next blind bend on the wrong side of the road in a race style. The area was a stop off / meeting point for bikers heading out towards Heysham and the IoM ferry either side of the TT. Lots of racing and showing off by bikers in race performance bikes and all the racing leathers too. I've got sympathy for the limit argument either side of the TT.

[Ben@Forest]

It's usually people riding beyond their capabilities that come to grief,people think they're a better rider than they are.
As you say it's depressing.

And very often older men who have returned to biking after a long lay-off or have discovered it in mid-life. From a 2018 article:

THEY ARE the born-again bikers who like to recapture their youth by taking to two wheels, but new accident figures show riding a motorcycle can cost men dear, as they face a greater risk of crashing than ever before.

Hospital admissions for middle-aged motorcyclists have shot up by 65% from levels of 13 years ago.

According to figures published by NHS Digital, 2,183 incidents of motorcyclists aged 50 or over were recorded by the Health Service between 2015 and 2016 (up from the 1,320 cases filed in the same timeframe during 2005 and 2006). Of that total, 1,258 incidents involved men aged between 50 and 59.

I had bikes on and off (mainly on) till about 7 or 8 years ago. Nearly all bought for practical (commuting) reasons rather than as weekend toys. But wondering if l'll ever buy one again.

[reohn2]

It's usually people riding beyond their capabilities that come to grief,people think they're a better rider than they are.
As you say it's depressing.

And very often older men who have returned to biking after a long lay-off or have discovered it in mid-life. From a 2018 article:

THEY ARE the born-again bikers who like to recapture their youth by taking to two wheels, but new accident figures show riding a motorcycle can cost men dear, as they face a greater risk of crashing than ever before.

Hospital admissions for middle-aged motorcyclists have shot up by 65% from levels of 13 years ago.

According to figures published by NHS Digital, 2,183 incidents of motorcyclists aged 50 or over were recorded by the Health Service between 2015 and 2016 (up from the 1,320 cases filed in the same timeframe during 2005 and 2006). Of that total, 1,258 incidents involved men aged between 50 and 59.

I had bikes on and off (mainly on) till about 7 or 8 years ago. Nearly all bought for practical (commuting) reasons rather than as weekend toys. But wondering if l'll ever buy one again.

As a returning motorcyclist after a 20 year lay off,I couldn't agree more.
There's an element of returners "born again biker" if you will,though I dislike the term,who are trying to relive their 'teens/early twenties,and are failing terrifingly.
For my part since returning to motorcycling two years ago I've worked hard at riding technique honing my latent riding skills and though you wouldn't think it but cycling has helped a lot with that technique.
TBH I tire of the macho image being portrayed by some motorcyclists,so much so generally I deliberately choose not to mix with the motorcycle fraternity such is the idiocy I've come across by many,many are so far up their own rectum they can't see daylight,which depresses me.

[Pebble]

So limited at 70mph and that will help in 20mph zones will it? Extreme range but highlights the point. Tech isn't there to limit to safe levels everywhere but perhaps modifying drivers might get results at all speed limits.

Limiting cars top speeds isn't a solution to anything long term. At the moment.

My view is enforcement, tough penalties and no hardship loophole at all. Points lead to bans at 12 points with full retest. If I could I'd make drivers caught with excess speed press the button on the car crusher on their own car. If under finance tough luck you're paying for a crushed car! Motorbikes and cars have a sound limit on their exhausts at all revs and in real use. Crushed if fail.

If autonomous cars are possible then it must be possible for vehicles to know what the speed limit is for any road they are on - ALL cars should be prevented form exceeding these limits!

There is apparently going to be speed limiters fitted to all cars from july this year
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/ne ... -from-2022
sounds great till you get to the line "You can override the system by pressing hard on the accelerator," whats the point of that ?

I agree though, we definitely need better enforcement and bigger penalties - allow and encourage councils to raise revenue through hidden speed cameras in built up areas - (could probably half domestic rates)