What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Dingdong
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Dingdong »

I'll take a set of sticking plasters, a length of bandage and a safety pin. That's always been suffice for me and any adversity that's not required a hospital visit, anywhere in the world.
Dingdong
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Dingdong »

The best things to take on tour! Multiple uses. :lol:
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Dingdong
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Dingdong »

jois wrote: 4 Oct 2022, 12:14pm
Psamathe wrote: 4 Oct 2022, 10:52am
jois wrote: 4 Oct 2022, 9:12am

I was answering the question," what do you carry" which is nothing, not telling others what they should carry, which is anything they want. I can see nothing wrong with throwing some TPC and plasters in, just I don't.

Never In my life have I been lay there thinking I wish I had a large triangular bandage , others can take there own first aid kit with them or suffer the consequence, I have over the years kept three people alive till the ambulance got there, didnt need a large triangular bandage for that either, there is very little that is actually life threatening were a first aid kit will make any difference at all, some techniques can go a long way indeed
Please don't turn yet another interesting thread into a daft argument. This has been a useful and interesting thread

Ian
I'm making what I feel is a valid and important point for the discussion

That first aid either consists of treating the most superficial of injuries or getting them ( or yourself)to A&E as quickly as possible, preferably alive. There isn't really much middle ground to worry about.

As such a long with a tin of plasters , aspirin and bandages , if your taking it seriousl you need a mobile phone and some reasonably developed techniques in CPR and steming blood loss, most everything else can wait for the ambulance , unless your up to performing a . tracheostomy
The worst thing I've had to deal with was a broken hip, after a friend slipped on black ice. He actually passed out with the pain, went into shock and then stopped breathing. I've been an active first aider since I did my Bronze medal lifesaver at university, so I was able to keep him oxygenated and heart massaged till the paramedics arrived (a full 15 minutes), which evidently saved his life.

This was about twenty years ago, with all the health and safety issues and legal requirements, I don't know many first aiders who would attempt this now, for fear of legal repercussion afterwards. In fact I'm not sure I would attempt it myself today.

Mores the pity. :cry:
rotavator
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by rotavator »


This was about twenty years ago, with all the health and safety issues and legal requirements, I don't know many first aiders who would attempt this now, for fear of legal repercussion afterwards. In fact I'm not sure I would attempt it myself today.
AFAIK nobody has ever been prosecuted in the UK for doing some first aid wrongly and I have also been told the same by the teachers on first aid courses that I have done. Does anybody know if this is not the case?
Dingdong
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Dingdong »

rotavator wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 6:27pm

This was about twenty years ago, with all the health and safety issues and legal requirements, I don't know many first aiders who would attempt this now, for fear of legal repercussion afterwards. In fact I'm not sure I would attempt it myself today.
AFAIK nobody has ever been prosecuted in the UK for doing some first aid wrongly and I have also been told the same by the teachers on first aid courses that I have done. Does anybody know if this is not the case?
I don't know if anyone has been prosecuted, but when I did a refresher course about 4 years ago, the general consensus was that if you did a resuscitation, especially where chest compressions were involved, and you broke a rib/caused a lung decompression, then there would certainly be a reckoning in the law. The threat of legal action is often enough to put people off taking such actions.

I vividly remember in my 'at sea' lifesaving exam, the examiner telling us that if anyone resisted life saving or panicked and grabbed hold of you, the sensible thing to do was to kick them away and explain to them (forcibly) that if they did it again, then you'd have no recourse but to let them drown.

This tends to calm the situation. In lifesaving, it's generally considered good practice not to place yourself in danger, as two dead bodies are ultimately a worse scenario than one. Similarly with legal recourse, one life ruined is not as bad as two.

DNR notices (do not resuscitate) are of course an entirely different thing altogether, and is well acknowledged in legal statutes. If you attempt to resuscitate someone with a DNR band or notice on them, then you might well go to jail for it.
Psamathe
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Psamathe »

Dingdong wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 8:54pm
rotavator wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 6:27pm

This was about twenty years ago, with all the health and safety issues and legal requirements, I don't know many first aiders who would attempt this now, for fear of legal repercussion afterwards. In fact I'm not sure I would attempt it myself today.
AFAIK nobody has ever been prosecuted in the UK for doing some first aid wrongly and I have also been told the same by the teachers on first aid courses that I have done. Does anybody know if this is not the case?
I don't know if anyone has been prosecuted, but when I did a refresher course about 4 years ago, the general consensus was that if you did a resuscitation, especially where chest compressions were involved, and you broke a rib/caused a lung decompression, then there would certainly be a reckoning in the law. The threat of legal action is often enough to put people off taking such actions.

I vividly remember in my 'at sea' lifesaving exam, the examiner telling us that if anyone resisted life saving or panicked and grabbed hold of you, the sensible thing to do was to kick them away and explain to them (forcibly) that if they did it again, then you'd have no recourse but to let them drown.

This tends to calm the situation. In lifesaving, it's generally considered good practice not to place yourself in danger, as two dead bodies are ultimately a worse scenario than one. Similarly with legal recourse, one life ruined is not as bad as two.

DNR notices (do not resuscitate) are of course an entirely different thing altogether, and is well acknowledged in legal statutes. If you attempt to resuscitate someone with a DNR band or notice on them, then you might well go to jail for it.
Some years ago now but when I did my 1st Aid training for myRYA Yachtmaster we were told that before giving 1st Aid you must have permission from the patient. They also said that if the patient was unconscious then you can proceed on the assumption that permission has been granted. But that was some years ago so the same might not apply today.

Ian
PH
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by PH »

rotavator wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 6:27pm AFAIK nobody has ever been prosecuted in the UK for doing some first aid wrongly and I have also been told the same by the teachers on first aid courses that I have done. Does anybody know if this is not the case?
I'm not sure what anyone would be prosecuted for, what would the crime be? Unless you did deliberate harm, it seems pretty unlikely. Some countries, such as France and Germany, have what's known as Good Samaritan laws, where it's a criminal offence not to assist! Though I don't know the details.
Being sued in a civil case does seem to be a thing. Google "First aid negligence" and you'll find loads of solicitors advertising to take on your claim on a no win no fee basis. How frequent and successful such claims are, I doubt anyone knows, the majority of all civil cases are settled out of court. I know that business public liability insurance specifically covers the possibility, it'll also specify the number of trained first aiders required on site, which may be higher than the 1/100 the HSE require (In a low risk workplace).
I have no concern about it, if someone isn't breathing I can't make it worse, if they're breathing unconscious and don't seem to have spinal injury I'll put them in recovery position, if they're loosing blood I'll try and stop it. Other than that, they're going to be conscious and anything I do to make comfortable, if serious enough till the professionals arrive, will be quite limited and with consent.
One last point - On a first aid course provided by an ambulance team (Who were very entertaining) they emphasised that you don't need consent to call an ambulance. It's your call, if you believe that's what's needed it would be an error not to do so, they can refuse treatment when it arrives, that's not your issue.
rotavator
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by rotavator »

This is serious thread drift but according to one of the ambulance chasing lawyer sites before you do anything you need to ask an unconscious casualty's permission first and explain what you are going to do first, just in case they can hear you :shock:
Psamathe
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Psamathe »

rotavator wrote: 7 Oct 2022, 1:47pm This is serious thread drift but according to one of the ambulance chasing lawyer sites before you do anything you need to ask an unconscious casualty's permission first and explain what you are going to do first, just in case they can hear you :shock:
But useful as e.g. if on tour with one other person there is a 50/50 chance they'll need some first aid rather than you. Go on tour with two other people and odds are first aid is more likely for somebody else than yourself.

One company I worked for my boss always seemed to have a packet of paracetamol in his desk and on the occasions somebody had a headache he'd ask if they wanted some but always stated "I'm offering you these as a friend not as your employer".

Ian
JohnMorgan
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by JohnMorgan »

Plasters and pills, mainly.

The plasters are the fabric, ‘cut to size’ type. I find them more durable.

The pills are for pain, stings/bites, trots, indigestion and water purification (sorry, pet peeve).

Add a ‘space blanket’ and a tube of super glue, I’m done.

With regard to the legal ramifications of giving first aid; if you are trying to save someone’s life, but do harm inadvertently, I suspect the judge will laugh any prosecution out of court. Have a look at the UK ‘SARAH Act’ of 2015. Other countries could be different, of course.
Dingdong
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Dingdong »

Safety pin and a roll of bandage. Those space blankets are a great idea, especially if someone is going into shock.
st599_uk
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by st599_uk »

Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 9:50am Safety pin and a roll of bandage. Those space blankets are a great idea, especially if someone is going into shock.
As long as it's not cold water or hypothermic shock.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
Dingdong
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by Dingdong »

st599_uk wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:17am
Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 9:50am Safety pin and a roll of bandage. Those space blankets are a great idea, especially if someone is going into shock.
As long as it's not cold water or hypothermic shock.
I went into shock after coming off at a roundabout and breaking my foot. I was very glad of a blanket.
Even on a warmish day.
st599_uk
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Re: What 1st Aid Do You Take On Tour

Post by st599_uk »

Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:21am
st599_uk wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:17am
Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 9:50am Safety pin and a roll of bandage. Those space blankets are a great idea, especially if someone is going into shock.
As long as it's not cold water or hypothermic shock.
I went into shock after coming off at a roundabout and breaking my foot. I was very glad of a blanket.
Even on a warmish day.
Indeed, but they rely on you emitting radiant heat and not losing heat via conduction - not always useful for hypothermic people.

You can get better (but slightly bulkier) which combine insulation and reflective components - some of them in a sleeping bag shape.

For example: https://reflexmedical.co.uk/best-emerge ... d-blanket/
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
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