Food poverty-the way out

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Cugel
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Cugel »

pete75 wrote: 12 Sep 2022, 4:19pm
al_yrpal wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 3:04pm Oh yes I remember when the Dutch were pumping chicken breasts with pork flavoured water to increase the weight! I am always very suspicious of any stuff from Holland because it often seems to be often factory farmed That was stopped.

Al
And that doesn't happen here? I used to be a refrigeration engineer in the frozen food industry and I can tell you it does, and worse. Have you ever been in a chicken processing and freezing factory? On the veg side you may have bought premium brand peas that had been in our cold store for six years before they were packed. I won't mention the stuff most here would find stomach churning if there's any chance it may have happened to food they've eaten. I presume you're aware that rats have adapted to cold store conditions.
Shurely shome mishtake as only those types beginning at Calais pursue naughty fud processing practices (except for Americans, who make the rotten chicken nice once more with chlorine). Al has travelled everywhere and knows these things!

My late Uncle Cornelius drove all sorts of lorries for a living after he left the RAF. Many of his deliveries and pickups were at food processing spots. At one point he took to eating Whiskas sandwiches, claiming the conditions in the Whiskas factory were most hygienic whereas those in fud processing domains dealing with fud for humans were .... not. Terrible tales he told!

I'll follow your lead in the avoidance of explicitly describing the stomach churning practices in those fud factories that he related to me, as a small boy at the time, with a great glee. "YYewwww!", I cried, with feeling, having had a spam sandwich for lunch. I've not eaten a Fray Bentos tinned pie since! Or owt like it.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

Cugel wrote: 12 Sep 2022, 5:48pm

And that doesn't happen here? I used to be a refrigeration engineer in the frozen food industry and I can tell you it does, and worse. Have you ever been in a chicken processing and freezing factory? On the veg side you may have bought premium brand peas that had been in our cold store for six years before they were packed. I won't mention the stuff most here would find stomach churning if there's any chance it may have happened to food they've eaten. I presume you're aware that rats have adapted to cold store conditions.

My late Uncle Cornelius drove all sorts of lorries for a living after he left the RAF. Many of his deliveries and pickups were at food processing spots. At one point he took to eating Whiskas sandwiches, claiming the conditions in the Whiskas factory were most hygienic whereas those in fud processing domains dealing with fud for humans were .... not. Terrible tales he told!
[/quote]

We had a new packing room engineer start, previous job at Pedigree Petfoods in Melton where they make Whiskas. He was amazed at the lack of cleanliness in our human food factory compared to Petfoods.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Vorpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Vorpal »

al_yrpal wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 1:37pm I dont think there is a direct link to how flush you are. I am sure that lobbying politicians by everyone has some effect. Wealthy farmers, struggling farmers, food manufacturers, drug companies, the BMA, ASLEF, RMT etc etc. As for misleading labelling perhaps someone can give examples of it, I am not aware? Like that Tory, from what I have seen some folk who obviously struggle dont seem to help themselves judging by what I see in their shopping trollies.

Al
Information about misleading labels:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47311097
https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/ne ... d-fat.html

How to avoid being misled:
https://perpetualwellbeing.co.uk/blog/a ... ood-labels
https://www.nutrition.org.uk/putting-it ... at-labels/

Jack Monroe, and a couple of others bloggers have some really good information about eating healthy on a budget https://cookingonabootstrap.com/

But that said, many people feel trapped, not only by circumstances that lead them take whatever free food parcels and bargains they can get, but also things like kids who have difficulty with some foods, food intolerances, medical issues, etc.

I don't have anyway to know what you mean when you say "dont seem to help themselves judging by what I see in their shopping trollies" but you have no way to know if they are simply buying what they can eat, rather than what they should, and no place to judge.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

What I mean is a trolley pushed by someone obviously very overweight full of processed foods with not a vegetable raw meat, or fish in sight.
Its impossible to take fresh foods to the food bank and we always feel bad taking tinned meats. I think they do get donations of fresh stuff direct from the supermarkets

I wouldnt claim poor practices dont take place here but the Dutch episode raised a lot of scandal at the time and there was a 1 hour tv documentry on it. They were pumping water which contained pork into chicken breasts with multiple needles to increase the weight. Very nice for Muslims!

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 9:22am What I mean is a trolley pushed by someone obviously very overweight full of processed foods with not a vegetable raw meat, or fish in sight.
Its impossible to take fresh foods to the food bank and we always feel bad taking tinned meats. I think they do get donations of fresh stuff direct from the supermarkets

I wouldnt claim poor practices dont take place here but the Dutch episode raised a lot of scandal at the time and there was a 1 hour tv documentry on it. They were pumping water which contained pork into chicken breasts with multiple needles to increase the weight. Very nice for Muslims!

Al
Walking around a supermarket and checking what others have in their trolleys in order to judge them.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

No, I dont do that Pete, but someones purchases in front of you at the checkout you cant avoid noticing.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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Cugel
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Cugel »

pete75 wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 11:20am
al_yrpal wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 9:22am What I mean is a trolley pushed by someone obviously very overweight full of processed foods with not a vegetable raw meat, or fish in sight.
Its impossible to take fresh foods to the food bank and we always feel bad taking tinned meats. I think they do get donations of fresh stuff direct from the supermarkets

I wouldnt claim poor practices dont take place here but the Dutch episode raised a lot of scandal at the time and there was a 1 hour tv documentry on it. They were pumping water which contained pork into chicken breasts with multiple needles to increase the weight. Very nice for Muslims!

Al
Walking around a supermarket and checking what others have in their trolleys in order to judge them.
For those who patronise the supermarkets, a useful thread could be designed in which each shopper posts a pic of their latest trolley or basket full of purchases. Praise and criticism could then be invited from all viewers, in which they give their reasons for approving or disapproving of the various purchases.

To provide context, each shopper could state various personal parameters, such as their age, current health issues and yearly income. The critics will need to provide their qualifications (formal and informal) justifying their status as a food critic. Academics of various stripes will have several certificates in the matter, from numerous universities. Other posters will have a long and great life experience as well as several convincing certainties based on irrefutable opinions got from disinterested newspaper pieces.

We who don't shop in the supermarkets, often because our opinion is that they sell 99% sub-standard fare, are exempt (or is it banned) from the thread of course. My own bias agin' the far from super markets is complicated by all sorts of deleterious side effects I believe they have in addition to selling junkfud.

Still, the likes of me and others generally avoiding the places can read the posts, probably with an avid interest.

Cugel, hypocritically eating a piece of chocolate from a supermarket-bought bar.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 11:55am No, I dont do that Pete, but someones purchases in front of you at the checkout you cant avoid noticing.

Al
You yourself say you do that , actually using the phrase "judging by what I see in their shopping trolleys".
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Vorpal »

al_yrpal wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 9:22am What I mean is a trolley pushed by someone obviously very overweight full of processed foods with not a vegetable raw meat, or fish in sight.
Its impossible to take fresh foods to the food bank and we always feel bad taking tinned meats. I think they do get donations of fresh stuff direct from the supermarkets
You have no idea why they are overweight, or what they actually eat. Just because someone has a bunch of processed foods in their trolley doesn't even mean it's even for them! They might be shopping for a relative & getting a bunch of pre-made meals or processed food because that's what that person wants. Or they might have problems with something commonly use in foods and have carefully selected foods which avoid that thing. Or they might have bought stuff that they have coupons for. Or they might be chronically ill and need food that is easy to do because they aren't sick enough to get benefits, still have to work full time, & don't have the energy to prepare food. Or they might shop at that supermarket once in every month or two & only buy processed foods there, and do the rest of their shopping at other places.

You don't like it when other people assume things about you, why do you think it's ok to do it about others?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
francovendee
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by francovendee »

Of course AL may be correct!
Some people prefer processed food but aren't overweight.
A lot of blame can be laid at the food industry and what they put in the food but also the amount people eat.
I think the increase in obesity has many causes but certainly individual attitudes to their diet has a big part to play and it's not down solely to genetics.
It worries me that in the UK lifespan has started to diminish at a time when food is plentiful and medicine more advanced than ever.
mumbojumbo
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by mumbojumbo »

I am going to risk opprobrium by asserting that there is an association between the contents of a trolley and the health of the person pushing that trolley. There may also be an association with their appearance. Some people may shop for others, but the majority of shoppers are meeting their own needs and their famly's. Many shoppers at my local LIdall buy pastries placed near the entrance, some are eating them on their way back to their cars. They are set a trap by the retailer and take the bait.I make it a rule not to buy croissants etc. even though they taste great.
Some people have a low metabolic rate, which inhibits burning calories .However I believe in the power of marginal changes.A little more exercise , and fewer calories would ease their issues with weight gain/retention. You cannot always solve every problem in life but you can take steps to tilt the balance in your favour.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

Vorpal wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 12:43pm
al_yrpal wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 9:22am What I mean is a trolley pushed by someone obviously very overweight full of processed foods with not a vegetable raw meat, or fish in sight.
Its impossible to take fresh foods to the food bank and we always feel bad taking tinned meats. I think they do get donations of fresh stuff direct from the supermarkets
You have no idea why they are overweight, or what they actually eat. Just because someone has a bunch of processed foods in their trolley doesn't even mean it's even for them! They might be shopping for a relative & getting a bunch of pre-made meals or processed food because that's what that person wants. Or they might have problems with something commonly use in foods and have carefully selected foods which avoid that thing. Or they might have bought stuff that they have coupons for. Or they might be chronically ill and need food that is easy to do because they aren't sick enough to get benefits, still have to work full time, & don't have the energy to prepare food. Or they might shop at that supermarket once in every month or two & only buy processed foods there, and do the rest of their shopping at other places.

You don't like it when other people assume things about you, why do you think it's ok to do it about others?
Thats an awful lot of assumptions and excuses by you. Cant see why you criticise mine? The stuff in trolleysj is certainly for someone... My assumption may possibly be wrong but I believe it mostly isnt. Some folk dont seem to help themselves. When I started shopping in Aldi in 2008 there were lots of people like I describe and the veg often rotted on the shelves because so few people were buying it. It doesnt happen now the demographic has changed. Aldi is now the 4th biggest supermarket chain.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

It's generally accepted - at least by serious researchers - that the whole subject of what drives diet & appetite is hugely complex and multi-factorial. This makes the subject a happy hunting ground for those - I inculde myself - who are prone to assumptions. I've done the snook-cocking thing over the contents of other's shopping trolleys, but an earlier commentator nailed it when they pointed out that without a protracted conversation at least, one has no idea why people put what they do in their trolley... or indeed where they go for their food shopping. For example, I cook fresh all the time - have done for decades, just following my mum I guess - but about a year or so ago, I was so low that pretty much all I could manage was cold beans out of their tin. This went on for a few months... but I'm back to cooking fresh again, thank goodness :-)
Anyone who wants to dig into the whys and the wherefores might do worse than have a go at chapter 4 of part 2 of the national food strategy... I kid you not! It's called Escaping The Junk Food Cycle.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... e-plan.pdf
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

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However, no sooner had I posted the link to the National Food Strategy, I learn that Miss Trust is about to tear it up... :roll:
Liz Truss could scrap anti-obesity strategy in drive to cut red tape. Exclusive: Health officials ‘aghast’ as review launched of measures to deter people from eating junk food
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Junk food, and its allure to the impoverished isn't new.

Critics of the shoppers in Aldi could usefully apply the empathy of George Orwell:

‘When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored and miserable, you don’t want to eat wholesome food. You want something a little bit “tasty”. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let’s have three pennorth of chips. Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream. Put the kettle on and we’ll all have a nice cup of tea. .. Unemployment is an endless misery that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the Englishman’s opium’

"The Road to Wigan Pier"
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