Food poverty-the way out

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pwa
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pwa »

jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:33pm
pwa wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 10:50am Sugar is high in calories, and cheap. If I wanted to fill up on sugary stuff I could do it without spending a lot. So even the poor can afford to be fat. But cooking is now becoming expensive, with fuel price rises, so preparing healthy cooked food from raw ingedients is already beyond some people's budget. Meat has become very expensive. Quick to heat ready meals are a costly way to feed yourself. The only cheap way of getting your calories is sugary stuff. With little protein, vitamins and minerals.
I don't think that's is necessarily the case. Depending of course on what you call exspensive and healthy.

Certainly a diet healthier than a load of sugar isn't greatly exspensive. Rice is cheap.pasta is cheap potatos are cheap frozen veg is cheap. Some meat is relatively cheap.

Sugar of course is addictive, there are more issues than finding cheap cals to replace it , to stopping eating so much of it
The starchy food you list is a not expensive, but you have to cook it. Cooking costs. And I think home cooked food will be a casualty of the fuel price rises. Which is very unfortunate.

I don't recommend that anyone resort to a diet of sugar, but I think some people are being nudged that way by a combination of sugar's addictiveness and its cheapness. The cheapest calories out there are sugary.
jois
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by jois »

pwa wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:39pm
jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:33pm
pwa wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 10:50am Sugar is high in calories, and cheap. If I wanted to fill up on sugary stuff I could do it without spending a lot. So even the poor can afford to be fat. But cooking is now becoming expensive, with fuel price rises, so preparing healthy cooked food from raw ingedients is already beyond some people's budget. Meat has become very expensive. Quick to heat ready meals are a costly way to feed yourself. The only cheap way of getting your calories is sugary stuff. With little protein, vitamins and minerals.
I don't think that's is necessarily the case. Depending of course on what you call exspensive and healthy.

Certainly a diet healthier than a load of sugar isn't greatly exspensive. Rice is cheap.pasta is cheap potatos are cheap frozen veg is cheap. Some meat is relatively cheap.

Sugar of course is addictive, there are more issues than finding cheap cals to replace it , to stopping eating so much of it
The starchy food you list is a not expensive, but you have to cook it. Cooking costs. And I think home cooked food will be a casualty of the fuel price rises. Which is very unfortunate.

I don't recommend that anyone resort to a diet of sugar, but I think some people are being nudged that way by a combination of sugar's addictiveness and its cheapness. The cheapest calories out there are sugary.
There ways of doing that that don't cost a great deal. Pressure cookers for one, slow cookers for another. Hell you can eat noodles they only need half a kettle of boiling water.

And the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:47pm ...
And the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
It's only free if:
* You wanted the heat there
* You wanted the heat then
* You didn't pour any eg hot water down the sink
* The source of the heat for cooking was not more expensive than that of the heat for heating the home.

And, as observed somewhere in this forum, many of us haven't been heating homes for many months this year.

Jonathan
jois
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by jois »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 12:47pm
jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:47pm ...
And the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
It's only free if:
* You wanted the heat there
* You wanted the heat then
* You didn't pour any eg hot water down the sink
* The source of the heat for cooking was not more expensive than that of the heat for heating the home.

And, as observed somewhere in this forum, many of us haven't been heating homes for many months this year.

Jonathan
No it's still nearly free on most of them. If you want it or not doesn't stop it being( nearly) free.


If you want to close the loop don't pour water down the sink. Leave it in a bowl to cool.

It is though I admit a lot more useful in the winter. I heat my flat quite acceptably with a slow cooker throw in a quick blast of the halogen cooker and it toasty on all but the coldest of days

In the evening I fire up a big candle. Which either gives free light or free heat dependent on you point of view
Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:35pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 12:47pm
jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:47pm ...
And the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
It's only free if:
* You wanted the heat there
* You wanted the heat then
* You didn't pour any eg hot water down the sink
* The source of the heat for cooking was not more expensive than that of the heat for heating the home.

And, as observed somewhere in this forum, many of us haven't been heating homes for many months this year.
No it's still nearly free on most of them. If you want it or not doesn't stop it being( nearly) free.
...
How is it free if you have to pay for the energy used for cooking and you didn't need it for any other purpose such as heating the home?

Thanks

Jonathan
jois
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by jois »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:37pm
jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:35pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 12:47pm
It's only free if:
* You wanted the heat there
* You wanted the heat then
* You didn't pour any eg hot water down the sink
* The source of the heat for cooking was not more expensive than that of the heat for heating the home.

And, as observed somewhere in this forum, many of us haven't been heating homes for many months this year.
No it's still nearly free on most of them. If you want it or not doesn't stop it being( nearly) free.
...
How is it free if you have to pay for the energy used for cooking and you didn't need it for any other purpose such as heating the home?

Thanks

Jonathan
Need doesn't change the fact that you paid for the cooking and got the heat at no extra cost. That's free by my book. I currently have an annoying house fly that is seemingly immune to fly spray and to fast to swat. I didn't want it. But it was indeed free of charge

I think its my optimistic glass half full out look that's the issue here
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

It's as well to recall that there is, famously, no such thing as a free lunch...
S
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Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:51pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:37pm
jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:35pm No it's still nearly free on most of them. If you want it or not doesn't stop it being( nearly) free.
...
How is it free if you have to pay for the energy used for cooking and you didn't need it for any other purpose such as heating the home?
Need doesn't change the fact that you paid for the cooking and got the heat at no extra cost. That's free by my book.
...
You've just reversed your own assertion of what is free. What you said was:
jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:47pmAnd the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
... the cooking is free nearly.

Your latest post is that the heating of the home as a side-effect is free. That's completely different.

You have to pay for the cooking.

Jonathan
jois
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by jois »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 2:49pm
jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:51pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:37pm
How is it free if you have to pay for the energy used for cooking and you didn't need it for any other purpose such as heating the home?
Need doesn't change the fact that you paid for the cooking and got the heat at no extra cost. That's free by my book.
...
You've just reversed your own assertion of what is free. What you said was:
jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:47pmAnd the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
... the cooking is free nearly.

Your latest post is that the heating of the home as a side-effect is free. That's completely different.

You have to pay for the cooking.

Jonathan
It's either or. Ones free ones paid for or it can be half and half or 80\20 how ever you want to view it. The concept remains the same that you can cook and heat for the same capital outlay

My view is that in the summer you pay for the cooking and get the heat for free and in the winter the reverse. But your more than welcome to disagree in part or whole. I'm ok with that
Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 3:28pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 2:49pm
jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 1:51pm Need doesn't change the fact that you paid for the cooking and got the heat at no extra cost. That's free by my book.
...
You've just reversed your own assertion of what is free. What you said was:
jois wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 6:47pmAnd the energy from cooking isn't wasted it's also heating your house. The cooking is free nearly
... the cooking is free nearly.

Your latest post is that the heating of the home as a side-effect is free. That's completely different.

You have to pay for the cooking.
It's either or. Ones free ones paid for or it can be half and half or 80\20 how ever you want to view it. The concept remains the same that you can cook and heat for the same capital outlay
If you don't want the heating in the home it's 100% for the cooking.

It's not matter of "how you want to view it". It's a matter of how much cooking costs, how fast that's increasing, and the harmful effects that it will have on the most vulnerable in our society.

Jonathan
jois
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by jois »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 3:32pm
jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 3:28pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 2:49pm
You've just reversed your own assertion of what is free. What you said was:



... the cooking is free nearly.

Your latest post is that the heating of the home as a side-effect is free. That's completely different.

You have to pay for the cooking.
It's either or. Ones free ones paid for or it can be half and half or 80\20 how ever you want to view it. The concept remains the same that you can cook and heat for the same capital outlay
If you don't want the heating in the home it's 100% for the cooking.

It's not matter of "how you want to view it". It's a matter of how much cooking costs, how fast that's increasing, and the harmful effects that it will have on the most vulnerable in our society.

Jonathan
I really don't want a circular discussion. It back to my pet fly. Wanted or not it's free.

I grew up in the 70s , energy crisis. Power cuts ,sky high energy costs sky high food prices raging inflation.

A return is less than welcome but it's far from unsurmountable. Had a discussion with my sister about her energy costs. "Turn things off "I said."we do "she replied "and it's still exorbitant. " " Well you must be turning them back on again "I said This made her cross she just wanted to complain, not actually do anything about it.
Are there vulrable people who need help.certainly .every one else is moaning instead of taking responsibility
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Paulatic
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Paulatic »

jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 3:49pm [
I really don't want a circular discussion.
@jo'bo never wanted one either :wink:
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Mick F
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Mick F »

jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 3:49pm I grew up in the 70s , energy crisis. Power cuts ,sky high energy costs sky high food prices raging inflation.
We grew up in the 50's and 60's .......... married in the early 70's and had children in the mid 70's.

The 70's were hard.
Strikes, food shortages, power cuts, sky-high inflation.

When we bought our first house the mortgage rate was sky high too.
Knock two naughts off your loan, and that is what you pay per month.
We bought our second house in 1985 and had a £30,000 mortgage and we paid £300 per month for it by the late 1980's.

Imagine having a modern-day mortgage of £200,000 and paying £2,000 a month! :shock: :shock:
Mick F. Cornwall
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

No one wants a return to those days, it was pretty hellish, but....your initial borrowing shrunk rapidly when rampant inflation struck, but wages and salaries did keep pace.

Apparently £200,000 mortgages are fairly common, scary as interest rates rise from absurdly low levels. Apparently people are dashing to get new fixed rates even before their deals are up.

Al
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jois
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by jois »

Mick F wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 5:13pm
jois wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 3:49pm I grew up in the 70s , energy crisis. Power cuts ,sky high energy costs sky high food prices raging inflation.
We grew up in the 50's and 60's .......... married in the early 70's and had children in the mid 70's.

The 70's were hard.
Strikes, food shortages, power cuts, sky-high inflation.

When we bought our first house the mortgage rate was sky high too.
Knock two naughts off your loan, and that is what you pay per month.
We bought our second house in 1985 and had a £30,000 mortgage and we paid £300 per month for it by the late 1980's.

Imagine having a modern-day mortgage of £200,000 and paying £2,000 a month! :shock: :shock:
During the coal strike I used to go down to the slag heaps aged 12 armed with a big shovel and mine coal for the family. Then put a bucket on each handle bar and cycle back up a sizable hill , not easy with drop bars and a big shovel
Last edited by jois on 25 Sep 2022, 5:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
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