Food poverty-the way out

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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

BBC news and R4 that heavily scews reality to the wokey far left
Pebble, if you spend any time at all finding out about * the BBC and its news service, you'll quickly learn of two ideas - one that it enjoys a world-wide reputation as the gold standard for independant news journalism and two, that amongst its many critics (it wouldn't be doing the job right if everyone was pleased, would it...), there's roughly an even split between the far left and the far right.
* I can see why you might not - some folk just want some decent entertainment.
S
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Carlton green
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Carlton green »

pete75 wrote: 24 May 2022, 12:58pm
Carlton green wrote: 24 May 2022, 9:57am [

I’m not a Guardian reader. Political bias in the media - whether it be intentional or unintentional - is difficult to avoid and I find that some papers are particularly bad in that respect. When I buy a paper or hear news I want it to be as impartial and objective as possible, for me that’s the BBC and The Times but even information from those sources is mentally questioned by me.

The Times is one of the Murdoch family's mouthpieces. You damn well need to question information from such a source.
Pete75’s emboldening of text, not mine.

Yes, Murdoch press but it has some editorial liberty so a degree of objectivity and impartiality is allowed. IMHO sources of unbiased news are limited, as a friend said the truth is likely to be somewhere in between a couple of well know right and left leaning papers. I don’t go much for the Mail and the Express because to my mind they’re divisive and heavily politically biased, they are called newspapers but …
Last edited by Carlton green on 24 May 2022, 1:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by rjb »

From an economic point of view high inflation reduces the debt burden making it easier for government's to pay off the huge debts built up during the pandemic. Several older forumites will recall the high inflation of the mid 1970's which reached 25% at one stage. We are a long way from those levels at present but no one can predict the future. We all got through that period of time without all the hype surrounding the current crisis and we will all get through this one, some will cope better than others of course.
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

the truth is likely to be somewhere in between a couple of well know right and left leaning papers
I like the idea - it's somehow reassuring to imagine that The Truth is available by the simple ruse of splitting the difference, however, sadly, truely independant journalism is as rare as hen's teeth - they all have an agenda and editorial constraint - they've got to shift product after all, as well as to support the Status Quo and contribute to civil order...
S
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

Some years ago when we got a paper delivered monthly I tried TheTimes, the Telegraph, the Independent and the Guardian for a month each to decide what to buy in future. I never read 'columnists' or pundits in any paper because they all come over as biased. I found that The Times, in its news articles was surprisingly the least biased and most newsworthy of all.
The Guardian is IMO a heavily biased read, its free online and that encourages many to swallow all its lies and half truths (its worldview) whole.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

A clear recent example of BBC bias - unforgivable...
how did that get on the ticker, we wonder...
how did that get on the ticker, we wonder...
S
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Cugel
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Cugel »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 May 2022, 2:20pm Some years ago when we got a paper delivered monthly I tried TheTimes, the Telegraph, the Independent and the Guardian for a month each to decide what to buy in future. I never read 'columnists' or pundits in any paper because they all come over as biased. I found that The Times, in its news articles was surprisingly the least biased and most newsworthy of all.
The Guardian is IMO a heavily biased read, its free online and that encourages many to swallow all its lies and half truths (its worldview) whole.

Al
In reading and judging those various newspaps you list, what benchmark do you already have with which to measure the bias of the various news organs? Logically, you must already have a set of beliefs against which you make such measurements - a set of beliefs that will contain their own "lies and half-truths".

Judging your own pronouncements about this forum, against my own set of beliefs and their bias, I consider your views to be mostly "lies and half-truth" for example. :-) Of course, you will have a similar view of my own beliefs and pronouncements.

In short, truth is, to a significant degree, never objective but always relative.

So, how can we judge which beliefs and associated pronouncements, attitudes, recommendations, policies, laws et al are "better" than others? There are several methods. For example .....

If a body of beliefs and their associated directives or recommendations for policies, actions and behaviours result in a high degree of the objectives being realised, with a minimum number of associated unintended consequences, then we can say that the body of beliefs involved is "better" than a body of beliefs that rarely results in any of their intended outcomes or predictions realising. Contrast, for example, the current body of beliefs and their predictions generated by international science against the body of beliefs and their generated predictions contained within any religion.

There are several other "truth tests" of this kind that can demarcate resilient and useful beliefs systems from the other sort. When we apply such truth tests to the beliefs and predictions of some political parties or their newspaper propaganda organs, it often becomes clear that some of them are extremely poor at making accurate predictions of future conditions based on their bodies of belief. Tory policies, for example, often result in the opposite of what the supported/supposed beliefs and policies state as their intended outcomes.

And let us not forget that most commercial "belief systems" are made-up-stuff that is not interested in any kind of truth other than "what will sell the best". This now applies to the vast majority of newspaps, which are more infotainment than any kind of effort to discover various truths in a rigorous, objective or "scientific" fashion. Trying to pretend that reading them all then condensing the "truthful" parts from the rest is rather like a curate pretending to the bishop that his rotten eggs are "good in parts, m'lord".

Cugel
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

Print newspapers are (were) really a dress rehersal for social media, in that the more specific your views, the more likely you are to select one that reflects those views.
It used to be a bit of cliche that proper brainy sorts took The Times, the FT and the Graun each day, but Lord alone knows where they found the time to read 'em all and do a proper job ! :wink:
S
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mumbojumbo
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by mumbojumbo »

[ would love to see a breakdown of this family of 4s budget to see how they only have £25 left for food. I have heard people on the radio who are working as Nurses teachers and police officers who are some of the best paid people in society, (well above the average incomes) claiming they need to use food banks - would love to understand where their money has gone./quote]

Erroneous, to say the least ,and all occupations where earnings depend on length of service etc .All begin work below average full-time earnings.None will match the salaries of dentists,GPs,TV camera operators ,pilots whose earnings can exceed £100,000pa
axel_knutt
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by axel_knutt »

Cugel wrote: 24 May 2022, 3:48pm If a body of beliefs and their associated directives or recommendations for policies, actions and behaviours result in a high degree of the objectives being realised, with a minimum number of associated unintended consequences, then we can say that the body of beliefs involved is "better" than a body of beliefs that rarely results in any of their intended outcomes or predictions realising. Contrast, for example, the current body of beliefs and their predictions generated by international science against the body of beliefs and their generated predictions contained within any religion.

There are several other "truth tests" of this kind that can demarcate resilient and useful beliefs systems from the other sort. When we apply such truth tests to the beliefs and predictions of some political parties or their newspaper propaganda organs, it often becomes clear that some of them are extremely poor at making accurate predictions of future conditions based on their bodies of belief. Tory policies, for example, often result in the opposite of what the supported/supposed beliefs and policies state as their intended outcomes.

And let us not forget that most commercial "belief systems" are made-up-stuff that is not interested in any kind of truth other than "what will sell the best". This now applies to the vast majority of newspaps, which are more infotainment than any kind of effort to discover various truths in a rigorous, objective or "scientific" fashion. Trying to pretend that reading them all then condensing the "truthful" parts from the rest is rather like a curate pretending to the bishop that his rotten eggs are "good in parts, m'lord".

Cugel
There's a marked lack of science in politics, most of it is about what the punters can be expected to vote for. The problem is that people know that if they want to fit in to society and be accepted, they have to subscribe to the views of the peers they associate with (or find people who fit in with their views). Science is beside the point.
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pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 May 2022, 2:20pm Some years ago when we got a paper delivered monthly I tried TheTimes, the Telegraph, the Independent and the Guardian for a month each to decide what to buy in future. I never read 'columnists' or pundits in any paper because they all come over as biased. I found that The Times, in its news articles was surprisingly the least biased and most newsworthy of all.
The Guardian is IMO a heavily biased read, its free online and that encourages many to swallow all its lies and half truths (its worldview) whole.

Al
That may well be because of confirmation bias. The Times is much closer to your right wing views than the Guardian and it is, after all, you who is judging the amount of bias.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

Pebble wrote: 24 May 2022, 9:48am I would love to see a breakdown of this family of 4s budget to see how they only have £25 left for food. I have heard people on the radio who are working as Nurses teachers and police officers who are some of the best paid people in society, (well above the average incomes) claiming they need to use food banks - would love to understand where their money has gone.
You appear to be ignorant of UK salary levels if you think nurses, teachers and police officers who are some of the best paid people in society.
I'll give the example of three women I've known since university days, all the same age and all good friends who shared a house. One studied French and History and went into teaching, one studied French and English and then qualified as a solicitor and the third studied medicine and became a GP. I'll leave you to guess which one earns £100,000 a year, which pays about £100,000 income tax each year and which earns £50,000 a year. Each has been in her profession for over 30 years now.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Carlton green
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Carlton green »

pete75 wrote: 24 May 2022, 6:20pm
al_yrpal wrote: 24 May 2022, 2:20pm Some years ago when we got a paper delivered monthly I tried TheTimes, the Telegraph, the Independent and the Guardian for a month each to decide what to buy in future. I never read 'columnists' or pundits in any paper because they all come over as biased. I found that The Times, in its news articles was surprisingly the least biased and most newsworthy of all.
The Guardian is IMO a heavily biased read, its free online and that encourages many to swallow all its lies and half truths (its worldview) whole.

Al
That may well be because of confirmation bias. The Times is much closer to your right wing views than the Guardian and it is, after all, you who is judging the amount of bias.
Well it could be confirmation bias or it could just be the truth, I believe the later rather than the former. I had a young friend who worked for a Labour MP and wrote speeches for them - said young friend spent a few years working in Westminster and when one MP left Parliament he went on to work for another Labour MP. He regarded the Grundian as the left’s cheer leader and didn’t read it, he wanted facts rather than opinion (his words) so he read the FT instead. Another friend reads The Times and votes Labour. Both of those people are intelligent and very well educated.
One studied French and History and went into teaching, one studied French and English and then qualified as a solicitor and the third studied medicine and became a GP. I'll leave you to guess which one earns £100,000 a year, which pays about £100,000 income tax each year and which earns £50,000 a year. Each has been in her profession for over 30 years now.
My guess: Teacher £50k wage, GP £100k wage and Solicitor £100k tax. Of course the higher the end salary the less you get paid to start with, helps to keep the riffraff out.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Mike Sales »

Which British newspaper reported extensively on the Pandora and Panama Papers, which lifted the lid on international tax evasion by the rich and criminal?
Was it The Daily Telegraph owned by the Barclay twins who live on Sark?
Or The Times, owned by Murdoch?
Did The Financial Times spill the beans?
Or was it the biased Guardian?
Tony and Cherie Blair were among those mentioned in the Pandora Papers

Perhaps more than anything else, the Pandora Papers – the tranche of documents published last night, which reveal the secret wealth of the world’s rich and powerful – tell a story about Britain.

There’s the role, for instance, played by the British Virgin Islands, an overseas territory of the UK that functions as a tax haven. Czechia’s multimillionaire prime minister used the territory to hide his ownership of a chateau in France. Others, including the family of Kenyan president Uhuru Kenyatta and Vladimir Putin’s PR man, have made similar use of the islands to conceal wealth – while Tony and Cherie Blair reportedly saved £312,000 in stamp duty when they bought a London property from a company registered in the British Virgin Islands in 2017.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opende ... l-britain/
The documents contain personal financial information about wealthy individuals and public officials that had previously been kept private.[11] The publication of these documents made it possible to establish the prosecution of Jan Marsalek, who is still a person of interest to a number of European governments due to his revealed links with Russian intelligence,[12] and international financial fraudsters David and Josh Baazov.[13] While offshore business entities are legal (see Offshore Magic Circle), reporters found that some of the Mossack Fonseca shell corporations were used for illegal purposes, including fraud, tax evasion, and evading international sanctions.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

Carlton green wrote: 24 May 2022, 6:44pm
pete75 wrote: 24 May 2022, 6:20pm
al_yrpal wrote: 24 May 2022, 2:20pm Some years ago when we got a paper delivered monthly I tried TheTimes, the Telegraph, the Independent and the Guardian for a month each to decide what to buy in future. I never read 'columnists' or pundits in any paper because they all come over as biased. I found that The Times, in its news articles was surprisingly the least biased and most newsworthy of all.
The Guardian is IMO a heavily biased read, its free online and that encourages many to swallow all its lies and half truths (its worldview) whole.

Al
That may well be because of confirmation bias. The Times is much closer to your right wing views than the Guardian and it is, after all, you who is judging the amount of bias.
Well it could be confirmation bias or it could just be the truth, I believe the later rather than the former. I had a young friend who worked for a Labour MP and wrote speeches for them - said young friend spent a few years working in Westminster and when one MP left Parliament he went on to work for another Labour MP. He regarded the Grundian as the left’s cheer leader and didn’t read it, he wanted facts rather than opinion (his words) so he read the FT instead. Another friend reads The Times and votes Labour. Both of those people are intelligent and very well educated.

From a YouGov Poll on how people regard Britain's newspapers. The mind boggles thinking about the politics of people who regatd the Daily Mail as very left wing.

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'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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