Food poverty-the way out

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reohn2
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:20am Unfortunately thats true. For the record I dont like it either. Whats your solution?

Al
Stop doing it?
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Mike Sales
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Mike Sales »

al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:20am Unfortunately thats true. For the record I dont like it either. Whats your solution?

Al
I am no expert in tax matters, but one measure does appeal.
We could follow the Norwegian example, and ensure that our dependencies do too.

Norway, the country where you can see everyone's tax returns
There are a few limits on how the data is disclosed. Only total income and total tax paid is revealed. So, for example, if Boris Johnson’s tax return was disclosed, it would show his total earnings as London mayor, MP and Telegraph columnist combined.

There is nothing new about tax transparency in Norway. Citizens have been able to inspect paper tax returns at the authorities’ offices since the early 1800s. The digital age, however, has made searching returns far easier and more popular, which in part prompted the requirement to reveal who was checking whom out.
Do they make Norwegians less likely to engage in tax avoidance or outright evasion? The Panama Papers are making headlines in Oslo - the country has a close relationship with Iceland - but no major political figures have been swept into the controversy … yet.
Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
This would be a start, I think.
Do you have any ideas to contribute?
Last edited by Mike Sales on 25 May 2022, 9:53am, edited 1 time in total.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Carlton green
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Carlton green »

reohn2 wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:24am
al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:20am Unfortunately thats true. For the record I dont like it either. Whats your solution?

Al
Stop doing it?
That’s a simplistic answer, but actually it’s a good start. We’re capable of passing laws that would make the practice illegal and we should do so. Every pound of tax that is due but payment of which is dodged actually robs ordinary UK citizens of money that could and should be used to support our society. Some of the seriously wealthy choose not pay appropriate tax and the rest of us have to face the consequences of that (effective) theft from society.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Mike Sales
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Mike Sales »

Why are kleptocrats and Russian oligarchs so attracted to British jurisdictions?
If we knew the reasons perhaps we would know how to make our money markets less welcoming.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

I ready admit I have no solution. Norway is only able to do what it does because it has massive hydro power resources, masses of oil and gas in its seas and an obscene amount of national wealth in a sovereign wealth fund that is currently swelling rapidly at our expense.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Mike Sales
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Mike Sales »

al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 10:22am I ready admit I have no solution. Norway is only able to do what it does because it has massive hydro power resources, masses of oil and gas in its seas and an obscene amount of national wealth in a sovereign wealth fund that is currently swelling rapidly at our expense.

Al
I cannot see how that makes tax transparency easier.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Vorpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Vorpal »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 May 2022, 10:09am
Well, perhaps they should move to another energy rich country and live very comfortably whilst holding everyone else to ransom with huge unjustified energy price hikes?

Throughout history a minority of folk have fallen on hard times and comparitively lately food banks have been their last resort. But...18% using them is far too high. Crippling rents caused by far too few houses and too many people is not helping at all.

Al
Is this meant to imply something about me? Or Norway? If you want to find a culprit in current energy prices, I think you need to look further east than Norway. Maybe a country that unnecessarily invaded its neighbour?

Yes, 18% is too high.

Crippling rents are caused by properties left empty, or infrequently used because they are purchased as investments
https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/o ... ting-empty
https://propertyindustryeye.com/reveale ... ant-homes/
Crippling rents are caused by city brownfield sites not being developed, or being developed as commercial sites, rather than housing. It's caused by housing that is developed for middle class families, instead of affordable housing (and complicated by the fact that no one agrees what affordable housing is https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-7747/ )
It's caused by a planning system that disconnects housing supply and housing demand. In other words, new housing is being built, but not the right types, not in the right places.

It's caused by a minimum wage that is not a living wage. Shall I go on?
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Vorpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Vorpal »

al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 10:22am I ready admit I have no solution. Norway is only able to do what it does because it has massive hydro power resources, masses of oil and gas in its seas and an obscene amount of national wealth in a sovereign wealth fund that is currently swelling rapidly at our expense.

Al
supply & demand?

Are you aware that everyone, including people living in Norway are paying more for energy?

The UK could just as easily have created a sovereign wealth fund & taxed the crap out of energy companies, but they decided instead to let them go without paying any taxes on North Sea oil for 3 years https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... hree-years

How many families in poverty could have been helped with that money? Or perhaps it could have been used for energy cost relief?
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― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:20am Unfortunately thats true. For the record I dont like it either. Whats your solution?

Al
According to Tax Justice, the world's top three tax havens are the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands and Bermuda. The UK Parliament is sovereign over these British Overseas territories so could end the practices which make them tax havens, the UK itself is no 13 on the list. Surprisingly The Netherlands is rated no 4. Luxemburg is no 6, Ireland no 11. Presumably the EU could do something about these.

https://cthi.taxjustice.net/en/cthi/cthi-2021-results
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pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

Vorpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 10:45am

Is this meant to imply something about me? Or Norway? If you want to find a culprit in current energy prices, I think you need to look further east than Norway. Maybe a country that unnecessarily invaded its neighbour?
It's not Russia's invasion of the Ukraine that has caused higher energy prices, it's countries choosing not to buy oil and gas from Russia.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
reohn2
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by reohn2 »

Carlton green wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:42am
reohn2 wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:24am
al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 9:20am Unfortunately thats true. For the record I dont like it either. Whats your solution?

Al
Stop doing it?
That’s a simplistic answer, but actually it’s a good start. We’re capable of passing laws that would make the practice illegal and we should do so. Every pound of tax that is due but payment of which is dodged actually robs ordinary UK citizens of money that could and should be used to support our society. Some of the seriously wealthy choose not pay appropriate tax and the rest of us have to face the consequences of that (effective) theft from society.
A simple answer,though not simplistic for reasons you explain.
The problem is endemic with,I strongly suspect the overwhelming number of the rich and megarich both in our society and from outside of it,eg; Russian oligarchs,and in politics,especially,even our current and former PMs are on that gravytrain of corruption and money grabbing.
We can stop doing it,as we can stop selling arms to despotic regemes such as Saudi Arbia who use those weapons to murder neighbouring countries and suppress their own people but it needs people of honour,strength and truthfulness,all of which are in short supply within UK politics.

It's like asking a drug addict to stop using,the drug in this case is money and the buying of politicians and even entire governments,which is what is happening in the UK today,the entire government and the political party are corrupt and upto the neck in this filth.
The "pusher" comes in the form of the mega rich and multinational corporations whose only interest is remaining as rich as possible by gathering evermore money at the cost to us all as you so rightly point out.

The circle is repetative and vicious in the extreme!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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reohn2
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 10:22am I ready admit I have no solution. Norway is only able to do what it does because it has massive hydro power resources, masses of oil and gas in its seas and an obscene amount of national wealth in a sovereign wealth fund that is currently swelling rapidly at our expense.

Al
We've had the same opportunities with North Sea Gas and Oil but chose to by vvotes with it,and change to a "service" economy.
Last edited by reohn2 on 25 May 2022, 12:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

"Crippling rents are caused by properties left empty, or infrequently used because they are purchased as investments"

Well in a Socialist paradise all this sort of thing would be controlled and infrequently used property or investment property would be seized. Right up the Guardians street!

Where I recently lived crippling rents were caused by temporary immigrant workers crowded into HMOs. Now they have had to go back the situation has eased allowing local youngsters to find affordable places to live and find work too.
Lots of new housing estates springing up around here with a good proportion of affordable housing in every single one. Although with house prices as they are affordable doesnt mean much. The houses sell like hot cakes which is baffling.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

One thing we could do is stop tax avoiders who publicly use these havens getting honours or stripping them of their honours.

Lewis Hamilton

Phillip Green

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by reohn2 »

pete75 wrote: 25 May 2022, 11:13am
Vorpal wrote: 25 May 2022, 10:45am

Is this meant to imply something about me? Or Norway? If you want to find a culprit in current energy prices, I think you need to look further east than Norway. Maybe a country that unnecessarily invaded its neighbour?
It's not Russia's invasion of the Ukraine that has caused higher energy prices, it's countries choosing not to buy oil and gas from Russia.
No,it's the energy companies choosing to make a fast buck by raising their prices by 50%+ whilst doubling their profits in the six month the war in the Ukraine has been waged that despot Putin,hellbent on total destruction of a neighbouring sovereign nation!
Nowt like a war for making money now is there?
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