Food poverty-the way out

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mumbojumbo
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by mumbojumbo »

Apparently mushrooms have stabilised-magic!
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

Good ep. of R4's Food Programme was on last Sunday - listen again link below if interested. Title topic was 'Wild Food' but nestling in there was some super interesting stuff about nutrients and fresh/raw foods, especially those who've been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Then yesterday one of the contributors popped up in the media with a follow-up article. Again, if you're interested in the way our diet contrbutes to our well-being, a must-read. The point being that a lot of us who think we eat a half decent diet, don't for increasingly wide-spread reasons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ly7n
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/ ... -junk-food
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Biospace
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Biospace »

simonineaston wrote: 16 May 2023, 6:52pm Good ep. of R4's Food Programme was on last Sunday - listen again link below if interested. Title topic was 'Wild Food' but nestling in there was some super interesting stuff about nutrients and fresh/raw foods, especially those who've been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Then yesterday one of the contributors popped up in the media with a follow-up article. Again, if you're interested in the way our diet contrbutes to our well-being, a must-read. The point being that a lot of us who think we eat a half decent diet, don't for increasingly wide-spread reasons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ly7n
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/ ... -junk-food
That's a very good Guardian article indeed, thanks for the link. The Food Programme even more interesting.

Big business creating 'convenience' products is something we should all be aware of - there's always a price to pay.
axel_knutt
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by axel_knutt »

Biospace wrote: 24 May 2023, 1:43pmThat's a very good Guardian article
This is what they're talking about:

The NOVA system for food classification.

Some research here comparing the value of the NOVA system and the FSA Nutrient Profile Score for predicting health outcomes:
.
NOVA.png
(Note that the correct metric for measuring processed food consumption is weight, not energy as the Guardian are doing, and our typical consumption levels are more like the upper quartile in that Italian study.)
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 12:57pm
reohn2 wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 12:37pm
pete75 wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 12:31pm A good start might be a universal basic income for everyone.
Yes a universal basic income that an individual can live on would indeed be a giant step forward.
Definitely worth trying.

As always it will need evaluation, and some sort of controlled trial would help enormously.
First trials in England: £1,600 per person per month.
https://autonomy.work/portfolio/basic-income-big-local/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... in-england

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 4 Jun 2023, 5:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
Psamathe
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 5:47pm
Jdsk wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 12:57pm
reohn2 wrote: 5 Jun 2022, 12:37pm
Yes a universal basic income that an individual can live on would indeed be a giant step forward.
Definitely worth trying.

As always it will need evaluation, and some sort of controlled trial would help enormously.
First trials in England: £1,600 per person per month.
https://autonomy.work/portfolio/basic-income-big-local/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... in-england

Jonathan
I thought Universal Basic Income involved quite a lot of other "changes" e.g. tax, benefits, pensions, etc. I'm sure an extra £1600 a month on top of an existing income would be great but the money has to come from somewhere. At least that's how I always understood UBI. https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... in-england doesn't suggest what the participants would be giving-up (foregoing pension/benefits,/etc.).

Ian
Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

I haven't yet found how the pilot in England will work.

That should be available for the more advanced pilot in Wales...

Jonathan
re_cycler
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by re_cycler »

From the full report that Johnathon linked.
https://autonomy.work/wp-content/upload ... BASINC.pdf
The trial would appear more about understanding the personal and social benefits, rather than the mechanics of how to implement UBI.
PH
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by PH »

Jdsk wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 5:47pm First trials in England: £1,600 per person per month.
https://autonomy.work/portfolio/basic-income-big-local/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... in-england

Jonathan
Wow, that's far more than I would have considered basic. i was expecting it to be in-line with Universal Credit, maybe with an accommodation allowance on top of that, it'd still be under £1,000 a month. This is almost seven grand a year over the tax threshold, is it taxable? Basic and taxable would seem a contradiction. It is more than thousands if not millions of people live on, I'm one of them.
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

A decent ubi is the way to go... mark of a civilised & equitable society. A good step forward towards relieving folks of the stress and indignities of poverty and a neat way to give everybody access to more choices about how they can live their lives. Fantastic! Brain Iknow would approve, I'm sure :wink:
However, my suspicion is that Britain is far too disapparaging, condemning and hubristic a society for such a reasonable idea ever to come to fruition...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
ANTONISH
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by ANTONISH »

I'm sure that some sort of basic income will be needed but I'm unsure how it would be calculated.
It's hard to say just how much someone would need to maintain the basics of shelter, warmth and food.
Housing costs vary between areas as do transport costs.
We are a long way from the austere days of rationing after the second world war - a time when food banks were unknown.

With AI increasingly able to do work previously carried out by humans there may be many unable to obtain employment to replace the jobs lost.
I'm not convinced by those who claim that we are just in a new industrial revolution and other jobs will come along as replacements.
My fear is that the wealthy who stand to gain from this "progress" will see the workless as being of no value.
pwa
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pwa »

ANTONISH wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 5:41pm I'm sure that some sort of basic income will be needed but I'm unsure how it would be calculated.
It's hard to say just how much someone would need to maintain the basics of shelter, warmth and food.
Housing costs vary between areas as do transport costs.
We are a long way from the austere days of rationing after the second world war - a time when food banks were unknown.

With AI increasingly able to do work previously carried out by humans there may be many unable to obtain employment to replace the jobs lost.
I'm not convinced by those who claim that we are just in a new industrial revolution and other jobs will come along as replacements.
My fear is that the wealthy who stand to gain from this "progress" will see the workless as being of no value.
But the workers are also the market to which goods and services are sold, so they can't be allowed to be too poor.
Biospace
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Biospace »

ANTONISH wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 5:41pm With AI increasingly able to do work previously carried out by humans there may be many unable to obtain employment to replace the jobs lost.
I'm not convinced by those who claim that we are just in a new industrial revolution and other jobs will come along as replacements.
My fear is that the wealthy who stand to gain from this "progress" will see the workless as being of no value.
Europeans (and the Japanese) are not reproducing quickly enough to replace themselves, but we're maintaining growth through immigration, while the Japanese are managing a population decline of around 250,000 a year.

Our response to Covid helped increase the flow of money from the poorer to the richest. Big Tech are an increasingly powerful influence on the world, it's going to be an interesting century.

"Useless eaters" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex3_brOUdpA
Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

re_cycler wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 6:55pm From the full report that Johnathon linked.
https://autonomy.work/wp-content/upload ... BASINC.pdf
The trial would appear more about understanding the personal and social benefits, rather than the mechanics of how to implement UBI.
Thankyou

Jonathan
ANTONISH
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by ANTONISH »

pwa wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 5:46pm
ANTONISH wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 5:41pm I'm sure that some sort of basic income will be needed but I'm unsure how it would be calculated.
It's hard to say just how much someone would need to maintain the basics of shelter, warmth and food.
Housing costs vary between areas as do transport costs.
We are a long way from the austere days of rationing after the second world war - a time when food banks were unknown.

With AI increasingly able to do work previously carried out by humans there may be many unable to obtain employment to replace the jobs lost.
I'm not convinced by those who claim that we are just in a new industrial revolution and other jobs will come along as replacements.
My fear is that the wealthy who stand to gain from this "progress" will see the workless as being of no value.
But the workers are also the market to which goods and services are sold, so they can't be allowed to be too poor.
Yes the workers will be part of the market - but not the workless who have no saleable skills.
I see a sort of closed system which includes the workers but could exclude the workless - i.e. the workless have no value to the closed system and are not part of it.
We had something similar in Mayhews' very informative "London labour London poor" where there was no retirement (no pension) people had to scrape by using whatever means that were available to them - in the case of being infirm and destitute one could have recourse to the charity of the workhouse - many wealthy people resented the charge on the rates.
In Ireland there was death due to starvation - in a country that had the means to prevent it.
The workless poor were not needed and of no value to those above.
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