Food poverty-the way out

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Pendodave
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Pendodave »

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why it's not analogous, but my impression is that stopping people smoking had had more to do with a relentless campaign highlighting the real and unpleasant circumstances of the habit, rather than changing the labelling advice.
We do rather tiptoe around the consequences of our food choices, which is particularly sad when a great many children have these inflicted on them by their parents before they have any independent agency in the matter.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

thirdcrank wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 11:24am Al

By your own account, in financial terms life has dealt you a good hand so I presume that even in old age, you are able to exercise the choices which come with affluence. I'm in broadly the same position, albeit via a very different route. Anyway, what I'm saying is that successive governments have connived with the food industry to deceive people by misleading labelling into believing they were getting something they were not. Implying that people who are taken in by this have only themselves to blame is a poor answer.
I dont think there is a direct link to how flush you are. I am sure that lobbying politicians by everyone has some effect. Wealthy farmers, struggling farmers, food manufacturers, drug companies, the BMA, ASLEF, RMT etc etc. As for misleading labelling perhaps someone can give examples of it, I am not aware? Like that Tory, from what I have seen some folk who obviously struggle dont seem to help themselves judging by what I see in their shopping trollies.

Al
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thirdcrank
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm not talking about advertising or on the package but the official meaning of terms used in food contents labels.

My attention was first really drawn to this years ago by a tv programme called IIRC The Golden Tap. That was about how a quite innocuous substance - water - was permitted as an additive to reduce the amount of the genuine article. This type of thing means that to understand what you are buying if you buy "perfectly" legally labelled processed food, you need either a lot of knowledge of the definitions or a work of reference. Ironically, when the EU sought to regulate this by introducing the E numbering system for additives already in use, people assumed that E numbers were to be avoided as a BAD THING, even if they were in fact traditional ingredients like E500 colloquially known as "bicarb."

What I'm really saying is that if food contents labelling were to be controlled by a part of the health ministry, rather than an agriculture ministry with its roots in wartime food rationing and acceptable substitutes for traditional foodstuffs in short supply, the situation would be different.

Why do we need regulations specifying the amount of "connective tissue" allowed in food labelled as meat?
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al_yrpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by al_yrpal »

Oh yes I remember when the Dutch were pumping chicken breasts with pork flavoured water to increase the weight! I am always very suspicious of any stuff from Holland because it often seems to be often factory farmed That was stopped.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
thirdcrank
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by thirdcrank »

Al

What I'm trying to say - without any jingoist spin - is that to make decent decisions you need decent information in a form you understand. I'm also saying that our ministry of agriculture in its various incarnations has deferred to industry lobbying to reduce that information.
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

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As for misleading labelling perhaps someone can give examples of it... ?
I've been interested in food and food production for decades and have read a ton of books on the subject as well as regular doses of food journalism from say R4's Food Programme. One thing I'd say is that the food industry is peculiar in that we interact with it several times a day (or else go hungry!) and so it's highly normalised for the vast majority of us. That is to say, when it comes to choice / purchases, we're on autopilot mostly. The decisions we make as consumers are ingrained in us and are brought about by forces we take for granted. We mostly consume our food without much thinking... but that's just me talking. For anyone who wants to make inroads into the how and why and where, I can recommend two books for starters:
* Spoon-Fed: why almost everything we’ve been told about food is wrong, by Professor Tim Spector
* Swallow This: Serving Up the Food Industry’s Darkest Secrets, by food journalist Joanna Blythman
For an overview of America's feed-lot-based food economy - and bearing in mind that it's likely that there will be moves to adopt these methods here, now we're out of the EU... try Omnivore's Dilemma: The Search for a Perfect Meal in a Fast-Food World, by American food journalist, Michael Pollan.
And don't expect to be highly tickled and amused.
S
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Jdsk
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Jdsk »

First step in providing universal free meals for primary school children in Wales:
https://gov.wales/more-children-wales-s ... ing-crisis

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Sep 2022, 5:25pm First step in providing universal free meals for primary school children in Wales:
https://gov.wales/more-children-wales-s ... ing-crisis

Jonathan
Thanks for that,it shows at least one government cares for the children.
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by simonineaston »

Just read the following:
The supermarket chain Iceland offers those aged 60-plus a 10% discount in-store every Tuesday, with no minimum spend. You will need to show proof of age to claim your discount.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Vorpal
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Vorpal »

I've read a couple of Michael Pollan's books about food, though I haven't read Omnivore's Dilemma: The Search for a Perfect Meal in a Fast-Food World. I think Pollan brings a really interesting perspective to food production & distribution systems.

While I think that his writing lacks balance (it is clearly biased), he does a really good job of pointing out problems in the US system.

I think however, that there is a happy medium between efficiency, and small & local / handmade. We need to look at things in terms of environmental harm. And also have understanding that in many cases, lifestyles need to change in order to support a sustainable food system.

Some things may produce less harm if done larger scale and transported sustainably, while other things produce the least harm if they are local / small scale / handmade.

Personal food purchases, cooking, meals out, etc., satisfy the time organisation of people & families, as well as the nutrition.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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simonineaston
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

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I agree broadly, however it's an unequal struggle. It puts the onus on interpretation and analysis on the individual consumer, making it hard, hard work, in the face of the industry's huge influence on the subject of what's good for us and good, too, for the environment. They have a vested interest and access to powerful tools.
S
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axel_knutt
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by axel_knutt »

al_yrpal wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 10:58amThe government gives out plenty of good health advice. If people choose to ignore it thats their choice.
Here is some of the dietary advice published by the FSA & SACN:

Maxima:
Total fat: 35% of total energy
Non milk intrinsic sugars: 11% of total energy
Salt: 6g/day

Minima:
Fibre: 18g/day
Protein: 55g/day
Fruit & veg: 400g/day

How many people do you think have checked whether their diet is anywhere near meeting this? I know, because I have a spreadsheet, but my guess is that almost nobody else has the faintest idea whether their diet is healthy. Most seem to cook what they like, then define 'healthy diet' in terms of that.

I think that those with a genuine interest in eating healthily would be happy for a body of specialists to help under the supervision of the DoH, whilst those who feel uncomfortable about being confronted with the unhealthiness of their diet will be relieved if Jacob Rees Mogg thwarts it under the guise of 'small government'.
al_yrpal wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 3:04pm Oh yes I remember when the Dutch were pumping chicken breasts with pork flavoured water to increase the weight! I am always very suspicious of any stuff from Holland because it often seems to be often factory farmed That was stopped.
Chicken breast with 17% added water legally on sale here today. It could be stopped, but only by the government.
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mumbojumbo
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by mumbojumbo »

Do whole birds get pumped with water or is it done once jointed .I never buy portions-an insider at the 'toir told me that they come from damaged fowl, and best ones sold whole. Sounds plausible.
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by Vorpal »

simonineaston wrote: 12 Sep 2022, 12:10pm I agree broadly, however it's an unequal struggle. It puts the onus on interpretation and analysis on the individual consumer, making it hard, hard work, in the face of the industry's huge influence on the subject of what's good for us and good, too, for the environment. They have a vested interest and access to powerful tools.
That's true, and large producers have done a good job of transferring the environmental & ethical responsibility to the consumer.

Without incentives and legal obligations, the system will not change.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
pete75
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Re: Food poverty-the way out

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 3:04pm Oh yes I remember when the Dutch were pumping chicken breasts with pork flavoured water to increase the weight! I am always very suspicious of any stuff from Holland because it often seems to be often factory farmed That was stopped.

Al
And that doesn't happen here? I used to be a refrigeration engineer in the frozen food industry and I can tell you it does, and worse. Have you ever been in a chicken processing and freezing factory? On the veg side you may have bought premium brand peas that had been in our cold store for six years before they were packed. I won't mention the stuff most here would find stomach churning if there's any chance it may have happened to food they've eaten. I presume you're aware that rats have adapted to cold store conditions.
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