Cycling UK Forum

Pebble wrote: 19 May 2022, 8:00am I think the media are winding people up into a frenzy to think that food and heat is more unaffordable than it is - you could live in a warm house and eat well for less than a packet of smokes a day, but some choose the later.

This is my expenditure for the 2021/2022 financial year. I think food/fuel poverty is defined as >10% of your budget.

In the latest Which they did a massive survey which revealed budget supermarket lines had the lowest rate of price increases, about 3%.

Printing money is always a driver of inflation, we have done lots during Covid as have other countries.

Its the doubling of gas prices thats of most concern.

Al

al_yrpal wrote: 19 May 2022, 4:53pm In the latest Which they did a massive survey which revealed budget supermarket lines had the lowest rate of price increases, about 3%.

Is that this from 6 April 2022?

"Best cheap supermarket food and drink: the own-labels that beat the big brands":
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/be ... yW11P2L9ul

Thanks

Jonathan

The wonders of free trade and imported labour have been mentioned further up the thread.

The results I see are a nation that can’t grow enough food to fill its mouths, a nation that cannot house its indigenous population, a nation that has lost the ability to manufacture a wide range of goods, and a nation that does not value its own working class because anyone and anything can be imported.

I would however agree that taxation is far too low and particularly so on the very rich and on large companies who aggressively avoid tax.

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 5:47pmThe results I see are a nation that can’t grow enough food to fill its mouths, a nation that cannot house its indigenous population, a nation that has lost the ability to manufacture a wide range of goods, and a nation that does not value its own working class because anyone and anything can be imported.

How do you think that the UK got to be so rich?

When do you think that the UK was most recently self-sufficient for food?

Do you think that the recent raising of barriers to trade in goods and services and to movement of labour has made the UK richer? Or the UK's poorest less poor?

Thanks

Jonathan

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 5:47pmI would however agree that taxation is far too low and particularly so on the very rich and on large companies who aggressively avoid tax.

And that's almost entirely under our own control. For company taxation rather less so, and that desperately needs international collaboration.

Jonathan

I challenge those who hold the view that taxation is too low to add up the list I identified in my earlier post. Try to calculate everything you are really paying as an ordinary person and identify what percentage of your income that it actually represents.

As for manufacturing Thatcher and Joseph wiped out large sectors of it long ago rather than usefully legislating to reform it. Whats left is pretty good in parts.

Al

Pebble wrote: 19 May 2022, 8:00am I think the media are winding people up into a frenzy to think that food and heat is more unaffordable than it is - you could live in a warm house and eat well for less than a packet of smokes a day, but some choose the later.

It’s very easy to condemn the poor however people do not choose to be poor, being poor is where many people end up through bad luck, poor education, and poor health. Maybe some lack self restraint too but the same can be said of the rich, maybe some do smoke or drink or take drugs but for some people those are props to get them through the day. It’s easy to condemn faceless others but once you start talking to people you realise that ‘but for the grace of God go I’.

al_yrpal wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:22pmAs for manufacturing Thatcher and Joseph wiped out large sectors of it long ago rather than usefully legislating to reform it. Whats left is pretty good in parts.

Manufacturing in the UK is a major employer and wealth creator and therefore funder of public services and a major source of exports.

I don't understand why this is so commonly decried in this forum. It may be because we don't have the obvious massive factories in the way that we did when people were growing up. Or perhaps it's part of the far too common declinism and Golden Agery, as if it somehow simply must be a failure.

Jonathan

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:27pm

Pebble wrote: 19 May 2022, 8:00am I think the media are winding people up into a frenzy to think that food and heat is more unaffordable than it is - you could live in a warm house and eat well for less than a packet of smokes a day, but some choose the later.

It’s very easy to condemn the poor however people do not choose to be poor, being poor is where many people end up through bad luck, poor education, and poor health. Maybe some lack self restraint too but the same can be said of the rich, maybe some do smoke or drink or take drugs but for some people those are props to get them through the day. It’s easy to condemn faceless others but once you start talking to people you realise that ‘but for the grace of God go I’.

Well said.

Blaming the poor for being poor is a very nasty habit.

Determining the next generation's poverty by their parents' poverty, whether that was a matter of chance or self-imposed, is even nastier.

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:01pm

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 5:47pmThe results I see are a nation that can’t grow enough food to fill its mouths, a nation that cannot house its indigenous population, a nation that has lost the ability to manufacture a wide range of goods, and a nation that does not value its own working class because anyone and anything can be imported.

How do you think that the UK got to be so rich?

When do you think that the UK was most recently self-sufficient for food?

Do you think that the recent raising of barriers to trade in goods and services and to movement of labour has made the UK richer? Or the UK's poorest less poor?

Thanks

Jonathan

Very clever questions but you do not ask the right ones.

Do I want the UK to be very rich. The answer would be no I want the UK people to be happy, free and well fed.

The UK hasn’t been self sufficient in food production for say a century, we’re very much overpopulated and continue to make the situation worse.

I would point out that employment is at a record high at the moment. A neighbour is a HGV driver, he tells me that the lack of foreign drivers has meant that he’s now able to command a better wage. Of course if you want to buy some things that aren’t made in this country then you’ll have import duties to pay on them. Arguably it would be best to regulate duties such that UK producers of similar parts weren’t undercut.

Jdsk wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:32pm

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:27pm

Pebble wrote: 19 May 2022, 8:00am I think the media are winding people up into a frenzy to think that food and heat is more unaffordable than it is - you could live in a warm house and eat well for less than a packet of smokes a day, but some choose the later.

It’s very easy to condemn the poor however people do not choose to be poor, being poor is where many people end up through bad luck, poor education, and poor health. Maybe some lack self restraint too but the same can be said of the rich, maybe some do smoke or drink or take drugs but for some people those are props to get them through the day. It’s easy to condemn faceless others but once you start talking to people you realise that ‘but for the grace of God go I’.

Well said.

Blaming the poor for being poor is a very nasty habit.

Determining the next generation's poverty by their parents' poverty, whether that was a matter of chance or self-imposed, is even nastier.

Jonathan

+1

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:43pm

Jdsk wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:01pmWhen do you think that the UK was most recently self-sufficient for food?

The UK hasn’t been self sufficient in food production for say a century, we’re very much overpopulated and continue to make the situation worse.

Most economic historians make it about three times longer than that, with 1750 being a common answer. We were dependent on foreign food throughout the Golden Ages.

Jonathan

Carlton green wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:43pmDo I want the UK to be very rich. The answer would be no I want the UK people to be happy, free and well fed.

Roughly how low could we drop per capita GDP and provide acceptable levels of healthcare and social care and education and policing?

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:28pm

al_yrpal wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:22pmAs for manufacturing Thatcher and Joseph wiped out large sectors of it long ago rather than usefully legislating to reform it. Whats left is pretty good in parts.

Manufacturing in the UK is a major employer and wealth creator and therefore funder of public services and a major source of exports.

I don't understand why this is so commonly decried in this forum. It may be because we don't have the obvious massive factories in the way that we did when people were growing up. Or perhaps it's part of the far too common declinism and Golden Agery, as if it somehow simply must be a failure.

Jonathan

As I read things you misunderstand the comments. There once was a time when we manufactured aircraft, ships, cloths, carpets, pots and pans, cars, cloth, tyres, taxis, clocks, televisions, musical instruments, shoes, electric kettles, machine tools, bicycles and indeed any and everything that any one and any company would wish to buy. What we have now is a shadow of its former self with some things hanging on in some depleted way. Yes, we do have some newer industries like media and professional services but the bedrock of product provision has disappeared and that’s really not good.