10 spd back to 9

[cyclop]

Anyone else out there reverting back to 9sp due,partly, to incompatability problems?In particular,my drop bars to straight project involving a 10spd 105 triple road setup not working with a 10spd mtb trigger shifter.My other conversion,9sp ultegra worked fine with some old 9spd mtb triggers.On the 10,I,ve stuck a 9spd cassette on,worked with some old thumbshifters on friction whilst a 9spd trigger gets delivered.

[cycleruk]

Up to 9 speed both Shimano MTB and road right shifters (rear) were compatible.
When 10 speed came out Shimano right shifters used different pulls between MTB and road versions.
(Shimano altered them again when 11 speed came onto the market. )
Currently Tiagra is now 10 speed but that doesn't match the old 105 10 speed system as it more matches 11 speed.
One option that I could suggest is to use a 10 speed MTB rear mech' with 10 speed MTB shifters.
The pitch and width of both MTB and road cassettes are the same.

Be aware that MTB and road left shifters are not compatible unless using a some form of adapter.
So again use an MTB front derailleur, but even this can brings problems with chainring diameters.


P.S. Shifting ratios etc' shown in the wiki.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/ ... Dimensions

[cyclop]

Up to 9 speed both Shimano MTB and road right shifters (rear) were compatible.
When 10 speed came out Shimano right shifters used different pulls between MTB and road versions.
(Shimano altered them again when 11 speed came onto the market. )
Currently Tiagra is now 10 speed but that doesn't match the old 105 10 speed system as it more matches 11 speed.
One option that I could suggest is to use a 10 speed MTB rear mech' with 10 speed MTB shifters.
The pitch and width of both MTB and road cassettes are the same.

Be aware that MTB and road left shifters are not compatible unless using a some form of adapter.
So again use an MTB front derailleur, but even this can brings problems with chainring diameters.


P.S. Shifting ratios etc' shown in the wiki.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/ ... Dimensions

Interesting option of 10 spd rear mtb mech and may well search fleabay for a used.As far as front changers go......my 9 spd mtb triple trigger shifter changes a road double ok on the 1st conversion whilst a friction thumbie ,of course,works with the other triple road mech with a triple mtb hollowtec chainset.None of these combinations for the front are recommended but they do actually work sufficiently well for me to run with them.The 2nd conversion is a carbon frame with a riveted bracket for the front mech so limited movement of the mech to accomodate the 44 ring should be an issue but in practice,not.1st conversion on an ally frame with band on so no issues,barring the length of the tail hitting the chainstay.I may try a band on triple mech instead

[andrew_s]

Anyone else out there reverting back to 9sp due,partly, to incompatability problems?In particular,my drop bars to straight project involving a 10spd 105 triple road setup not working with a 10spd mtb trigger shifter.My other conversion,9sp ultegra worked fine with some old 9spd mtb triggers.On the 10,I,ve stuck a 9spd cassette on,worked with some old thumbshifters on friction whilst a 9spd trigger gets delivered.

Up to 9-speed MTB and 10-speed road MTB and road rear shifting was interchangeable, so long as the number of sprockets and the number of clicks on the shifter matched. The rear mechs all had a geometry such that the rear mech moved 1.7 mm for each 1 mm of cable pull.

At 11-speed road and 10-speed MTB, the cable pull ratios got changed (to 1.4 mm/mm and 1.2 mm/mm respectively), so that road and MTB rear shifting is no longer compatible with either older groupsets or each other.

The exception is 10-speed Tiagra (4700) which is the same as 11-speed road (iirc).

Thus you can change back and forth between 9- and 10-speed road (except Tiagra), but you can't use 10-speed MTB shifters or mechs.

In practice, if you want 10-speed road, you can use a 9-speed MTB rear mech, but not a 10-speed. This isn't as important as it used to be, now road-style groupsets include large sprockets.

As noted, road and MTB front shifting has always been incompatible, officially. The Jtek Shiftmate 7 will correct the pull.
In practice, fiddling is sometimes possible. I spent some years using Ultegra STI levers with an XT front mech, by dint of clamping the cable on the wrong side of the pinch bolt, and a great deal of care getting the cable tension and mech postioning just right.

[the snail]

Surely the simple option would have been to buy the correct 10 speed flat bar road shifters. If you are using cable brakes, then you'd want road brake levers too?

[cyclop]

Surely the simple option would have been to buy the correct 10 speed flat bar road shifters. If you are using cable brakes, then you'd want road brake levers too?

I suppose that,having used 9spd stuff on my mtb,s without any problems at all for many years,I wanted to replicate that on the conversions.Also 9spd stuff looked cheaper to source.

[Jupestar]

This 10s incompatibility MTB/ROAD. Made me move to SRAM. Not without it’s own problems.

In hindsight nothing gained by moving to 10s. Thought it would be easier for disc brake options. But it’s not.

[freiston]

I've been running 3x9 since 2014 (road touring bike). I went to a wider range cassette some time back (from 11-28 to 11-34) and needed to change my rear mech due to the old one not having the capacity and so I went to a MTB 9 speed long cage rear mech. (Obviously) No compatibility issues.

I'm coming into a bit of cash in a few months and there's a chance that I might build a touring bike with it so I've been "window shopping" and have been quite perturbed with what seems to be a juggling act getting a drivetrain that provides the desired range of gears. Getting rear mechs that can handle a large sprocket cassette (34/36T - not the 1x 40T+ ones) and a decent touring triple should be a lot easier in this day and age but it seems that fashion and supply issues are against me.

Right at the outset, I decided that friction shifters is the best route for minimising compatibility issues. I use bar-end shifters in friction non-indexed mode now and for any new build, I will most likely go back to down-tube friction shifters. If I were to go with non-drop bars, I would most likely go with some sort of thumbie. I did consider Dia Compe ENE Wing shifters for the drop bar but decided that down-tube shifters were a better option.

Due to supply/availability/manufacturing trend issues and my commitment to 3x systems, I've been looking at 3x10 drivetrains, with an MTB rear mech that can handle 43T - 47T capacity (either 20T or 22T difference at the front with 11-34, 12-34 or up to 36T on the back), giving a gear range of around 20" to 110" . This seems to me to be an ideal touring set-up and, in my mind, in a just world should be easy to achieve with plenty of choice (as should a 3x9 system) but in practice seems to be quite a headache to spec and source.

So, to get back to the OP, yes, I am considering going from 9 speed to a 10 speed system but not down to compatibility issues with shifters, but down to availability of components to get me a decent range of gears on a road bike with a triple chainset. Remove indexing from the equation and the job is a lot easier whatever the number of sprockets on your cassette.

[rogerzilla]

10 speed was the fussiest of all - a cable pull originally designed for 6 speeds became too small for reliability when gunged up. With 11 speed, Shimano increased the cable pull.

[cycleruk]

10 speed was the fussiest of all - a cable pull originally designed for 6 speeds became too small for reliability when gunged up. With 11 speed, Shimano increased the cable pull.

Tiagra 4700 is now 10 speed and the cable pull has also increased similar to 11 speed.
Not sure if you could go to a 42T cassette with it though. ?

[Jamesh]

I find 9 speed good for winter bikes nice and reliable and relatively affordable

10spd for summer bikes. 5600 and 4700 groupsets. I can swap between wheelsets if I need too.

Having 4700 on a older pro level frame is a crime but going to 11spd would be a pain....

[djnotts]

Sort of related.
My 2016 Giant Anyroad is a 3 x 9 with (according to spec sheets) 3500 shifters, FD R3503 and RD R3500 9 speed.
I need to change to flat bars. I have read so much on shifter compatibility that my head hurts.
Would SL R440 3 x 9 speed work? F and R? Or is the only real solution a friction front (which is what I have done with same drops to flats job on my Boardman ASR 8.8 - an old Deore thumb shifter)? Any 9 speed flatbar road shifter for the rear?
Or give it up as a bad job which Mr Shimano never meant to happen?

[freiston]

Sort of related.
My 2016 Giant Anyroad is a 3 x 9 with (according to spec sheets) 3500 shifters, FD R3503 and RD R3500 9 speed.
I need to change to flat bars. I have read so much on shifter compatibility that my head hurts.
Would SL R440 3 x 9 speed work? F and R? Or is the only real solution a friction front (which is what I have done with same drops to flats job on my Boardman ASR 8.8 - an old Deore thumb shifter)? Any 9 speed flatbar road shifter for the rear?
Or give it up as a bad job which Mr Shimano never meant to happen?

As I understand it, full compatibility with any Shimano 9 speed rear changer and rear shifter but MTB and Road front changers have different cable pulls.

According to Bike Gremlin, despite the front changer cable pull differences, an MTB shifter can almost always be made to work with a Road front changer and vice versa. From their blurb, it looks like your proposed combination would be workable. Here's the relevant bit from their page:

Shimano road and MTB FDs have different cable pull ratio – that is the amount of FD movement for each mm of cable movement. This means that MTB FDs might not work well with indexed road shifters and vice versa.

With double chainrings, this issue can be fixed with adjusting limit screws and it could be made to work. With triple chainrings, it is harder to get it to work properly. However, FD cage is a lot wider than the chain and triple FDs have just 3 positions, so depending on particular shifter – FD combination, even that can sometimes be made to work OK.

Having said all this and in spite of officially different cable pull, all the FDs almost always work OK with all the shifters, regardless whether it is road, or MTB. Exception are the Shimano 11 speed road FDs and Shimano Tiagra 4700 10 speed FDs – they have a (vastly) different cable pull (and cable anchor arm), so they are not compatible. So, while this will not shift perfectly, especially with triples, it is worth giving a try and seeing if it’s good enough for one’s criteria – if what one has on hand are mismatched road and mtb shifters and FDs. If it doesn’t work satisfactory, the cheaper option is to find a FD that matches the shifter.

[djnotts]

Thanks.
It was designed and built with all road bike components and it all worked. The 440s are designated flat bar road shifters so ...... should be OK.