Cycling UK Forum

Snap!

But we all know the formula is crap!

If you routinely see high HR on bits of the trip where you aren’t putting in high effort, you’ve surely got to ask yourself, and possibly your GP, ‘why?’.

Given the job the heart does as part of the overall human system, it should only be at high output if you are putting in lots of work, or if something puts you into “fight or flight” readiness, or, I suppose, if you’ve taken too much strong coffee.

Hi,

Jdsk wrote: ↑4 Jun 2022, 11:16pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑4 Jun 2022, 11:13pmBut we all know the formula is crap!

I don't. I do know that a crude but helpful clinical tool can be misused.

Jonathan

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/heart-rate-calculator/

Hi,

Nearholmer wrote: ↑4 Jun 2022, 11:30pm

Snap!

But we all know the formula is crap!

If you routinely see high HR on bits of the trip where you aren’t putting in high effort, you’ve surely got to ask yourself, and possibly your GP, ‘why?’.

Given the job the heart does as part of the overall human system, it should only be at high output if you are putting in lots of work, or if something puts you into “fight or flight” readiness, or, I suppose, if you’ve taken too much strong coffee.

Specific HR is of course anecdotal and individual.
Average Percent of you max is a good indicator of effort.
Which is why I have asked how the OP came about the figure for their max HR.

Assuming you already have a base level of cardio fitness, are there any reasons not to just increase exertion to find your Max HR.

Bsteel wrote: ↑5 Jun 2022, 12:39pm Assuming you already have a base level of cardio fitness, are there any reasons not to just increase exertion to find your Max HR.

I'd presume you could push it, but rather like any form of exercise, once the muscles beyond it's range of ability it'd fail? Either during or post exercise.

It'd probably cause problems on a ride, as quite apart from heart failure, you'd have all the broken body and bike bits causing issues (Nb. They're only superficial really, given that whilst the body parts may be painful and bike parts expensive, once you're dead it'd be fairly irrelevant)

Bsteel wrote: ↑5 Jun 2022, 12:39pm Assuming you already have a base level of cardio fitness, are there any reasons not to just increase exertion to find your Max HR.

You've already got the wise precaution about sudden increase in exertion in there. You need to add one about known disease and medical advice.

After that... No.

But of course "observed maximum heart rate on exertion" means something different from "predicted maximum heart rate to be used in eg an exercise stress test".

Jonathan

Bsteel wrote: ↑5 Jun 2022, 12:39pm Assuming you already have a base level of cardio fitness, are there any reasons not to just increase exertion to find your Max HR.

I remember reading some advice about how to prepare for it, and how to recover afterwards. I don't recall the detail, but it wasn't as simple as just going out and doing it.

Thanks Johnathon.
I'd assumed the pump is rate limited and will hit a maximum. Of course, there is always the potential risk of an undiagnosed fault in the system.
My thought was that a 10-15 BPM difference in assumed Max HR does shift the workout Zone targets.

Perhaps I should have included that doing this on public roads might not be sensible, but that's about road safety rather than physiology.

Jonathan

axel_knutt wrote: ↑8 Jun 2022, 2:05pm I remember reading some advice about how to prepare for it, and how to recover afterwards. I don't recall the detail, but it wasn't as simple as just going out and doing it.

I would expect some sort of warm-up and cool down would be helpful. Although I assume that it's much the same response as that of the flight part of "fight or flight" which normally doesn't come with a warning.
But point taken.

Jdsk wrote: ↑8 Jun 2022, 2:08pm Perhaps I should have included that doing this on public roads might not be sensible, but that's about road safety rather than physiology.

Jonathan

Agreed.

Bsteel wrote: ↑8 Jun 2022, 2:07pm I'd assumed the pump is rate limited and will hit a maximum.

It's *complicated, and there are multiple control systems and they aren't limited to the heart's own wiring. But they generally work together rather competently, often for over eighty years without servicing!

Bsteel wrote: ↑8 Jun 2022, 2:07pm Of course, there is always the potential risk of an undiagnosed fault in the system.

Yes, but I wouldn't worry about that beyond the precautions above. If anyone is interested... the most common would probably be undiagnosed cardiomyopathies in young people (for whom there are some precautions being taken in some sports) and atherosclerotic heart disease in older people.

Jonathan

* I remember a hilarious conversation with the discoverer of the J reflex about whether we could make some money by remotely deactivating the vagal supply to a racehorse's heart as it approached the finishing line. : - )

Jdsk wrote: ↑8 Jun 2022, 2:17pm * I remember a hilarious conversation with the discoverer of the J reflex about whether we could make some money by remotely deactivating the vagal supply to a racehorse's heart as it approached the finishing line. : - )

Thanks for the detail, that's just given me a stack of new reading material.

Hi,
A test you can do will probably be quite severe!
A bit like a FTP test which is similar.

Its recommended to have some friend with you to beat you with a stick when you fail to exert yourself enough
When I have hit highs in the past its normally when tracking down some one in front which might also be a pedalec.
But this is still probably not max as that would probably require you to be chased by a lion / bear who can outrun your very fit average cyclist on the flat.
When I have been at my high heart rate I get a hollow feeling in the chest when there is nothing left.
No way I.M.O. does your muscles pack up you just cant exert anymore into it.
Of course you cant hit a high high until you get quite fit..........then you got to repeat to allow for increased fitness.
Its not recommended to do a FTP test more than once every three months, like wise similar for max HR.
You would probably have to have monitored your HR for some time to get an idea of what to expect when testing for max.
Otherwise you cant be sure you have even got into the right ball park.

Its all so common for me to be very disappointed when on the turbo with inconsistencies in average and my peak HR.
Some days there no rhyme or reason for poor apparent performance.
But remember that Max HR is not necessarily an indicator of fitness.
Its not uncommon for my average heart rate to be+/- 4-5 beats / minute, on different days with similar performance.
You will get to know what is expected of your average HR on each ride (average heart rate for the ride as a whole), which is more important training that your peak heart rate.
So I expect avg to be 80% of max on the road up to 3 hours.
Turbo will be above 85% - 93% on a good day.
If you don't get what you expect then the max HR test will be some what void.

https://www.cycling-inform.com/how-to-t ... heart-rate

FTP-

https://stagescycling.com/en_us/content/how-to-ftp-test

[/quote]

But of course "observed maximum heart rate on exertion" means something different from "predicted maximum heart rate to be used in eg an exercise stress test".

Jonathan
[/quote]

Can you explain that further please?