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Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 28 Sep 2023, 12:15pm
by maximus meridius
Blondie wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023, 9:58pm
maximus meridius wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023, 10:49am
Whereas the usual 220-age would suggest that 158 is my maximum heart rate. 220-age is thought to be very unreliable, especially for older people.
That was never intended to give a max heart rate for a person. You cannot use a formula to determine your max heart rate, no more than you can use one to work out how tall you are.
Indeed. Which is why I used the word
suggest.
Perhaps you missed that?
Also why I said
220-age is thought to be very unreliable, especially for older people.
Perhaps you missed that too?
And also why I said that I had attempted to establish my "real" maximum heart rate -
So I attempted to find my "real" maximum heart rate as it applies to cycling (because MHR is different for different activities, apparently) by doing something like number 3 from here:
https://padyakracingteam.com/2022/04/02/max-heart-rate/
There are various versions of the "outdoor hill climb test", but they are all more or less the same. My max heart rate then was 173. Though I think I could have tried harder. I daresay if I had prepared for it in terms of rest and nutrition, as though I was getting ready for a marathon or something, I might have tried harder, and got a higher MHR.
Perhaps you missed that too?
Maybe you also missed that I said, in responding to the OP
I wonder what you are using to determine your "theoretical max heart rate"?
specifically using the word "theoretical".
I think I was pretty clear, if you read my post in full, in context, that I was saying the various methods of calculating Maximum Heart Rate are variable and theoretical. As another poster has said,
Personally, I’m only interested in it because it gives a peg from which to hang various intensities of exercise, and at that level I’m convinced that it has value.
Which, as I was replying to the OP who was concerned that he was very near his "maximum heart rate" seems like a reasonable approach.
I hope that the OP may have found my fairly lengthy post useful, and anybody else who happens upon this discussion in the future.
Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 28 Sep 2023, 12:37pm
by mattheus
maximus meridius wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023, 12:15pm
...<snippage> ...
in responding to the OP, that I said
I wonder what you are using to determine your "theoretical max heart rate"?
specifically using the word "theoretical".
The following may seem pedantic to some - in which case please ignore! - but for me these subtle differences in language are what lead to the confusion around this (confusion which is repeated almost weekly for many many years on the interwebs! )
There is no "theoretical" MHR, nor formula for calculating it. The formulae merely give an AVERAGE for a rider of Age X; they are purely statistical figures.
It's as accurate as a figure for average weight, life-expectancy or shoe-size.
What it IS somewhat accurate for - on an
individual basis - is giving a guide to how much your MHR will
drift downwards with age. And again, only a guide.
If you are an adult male with a shoe-size 2 above average (or below), this does not show that the statistics are wrong
There is no point in re-measuring, or looking for a different "rule". Your shoe-size is what it is! Equally, if the stats show that life-expectancy for your demographic will run out in 2 months time, please don't spend your pension fund straight away, or cancel your 2024 holidays
Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 28 Sep 2023, 2:50pm
by Blondie
maximus meridius wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023, 12:15pm
I hope that the OP may have found my fairly lengthy post useful, and anybody else who happens upon this discussion in the future.
More succinctly, there are no formulas to calculate a max heart rate for an individual, you need to go out and test to find your own.
Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 28 Sep 2023, 3:00pm
by maximus meridius
mattheus wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023, 12:37pm
maximus meridius wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023, 12:15pm
...<snippage> ...
in responding to the OP, that I said
I wonder what you are using to determine your "theoretical max heart rate"?
specifically using the word "theoretical".
The following may seem pedantic to some - in which case please ignore! - but for me these subtle differences in language are what lead to the confusion around this (confusion which is repeated almost weekly for many many years on the interwebs! )
There is no "theoretical" MHR, nor formula for calculating it. The formulae merely give an AVERAGE for a rider of Age X; they are purely statistical figures.
It's as accurate as a figure for average weight, life-expectancy or shoe-size.
What it IS somewhat accurate for - on an
individual basis - is giving a guide to how much your MHR will
drift downwards with age. And again, only a guide.
If you are an adult male with a shoe-size 2 above average (or below), this does not show that the statistics are wrong
There is no point in re-measuring, or looking for a different "rule". Your shoe-size is what it is! Equally, if the stats show that life-expectancy for your demographic will run out in 2 months time, please don't spend your pension fund straight away, or cancel your 2024 holidays
Yes, it is pedantic. My post was meant to be of some practical help.
Ok then, the figures for what constitutes "vigorous" exercise are often expressed as "percentages of maximum heart rate".
Tell me, what's 80% of the word average? Somewhere, somehow, there has to be a number, if you're going to use the various percentage bands.
Of course the other methods of perceived effort (breathing, ability to talk or sing etc.) may be just as useful. But the original poster was asking about his "theoretical maximum heart rate". Have a look at his post. And that was what I was addressing. The actual original poster's question.
Yet again, a simple direct question by a poster, and an attempt to answer that question in a helpful way, has deteriorated into the usual diversion and deflection so common here.
Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 28 Sep 2023, 8:14pm
by slowster
Posts have been removed because of breaches of forum guidelines.
Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 29 Sep 2023, 12:54am
by maximus meridius
Blondie wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023, 2:50pm
maximus meridius wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023, 12:15pm
I hope that the OP may have found my fairly lengthy post useful, and anybody else who happens upon this discussion in the future.
More succinctly, there are no formulas to calculate a max heart rate for an individual, you need to go out and test to find your own.
Perhaps using the "test to find your own" that I gave in my post. It was part of the post that you have seem to have missed out of the quotation above. Though I'm sure that wasn't on purpose. But just for clarity, the "test to find your own" that I suggested is
https://padyakracingteam.com/2022/04/02/max-heart-rate/
Re: Heart rate nearly always high - overdoing it?
Posted: 29 Sep 2023, 8:52am
by Blondie
Going back to the OP
You will build a better overall fitness with a mix of easy and hard rides, with a greater emphasis on lower intensity rides. When I say easy I mean easy in terms of effort where the difficulty comes from the duration of the ride. Whilst high intensity can build fitness, if starting from a sedentary lifestyle; it quickly plateaus, and only works one aspect of your fitness. You need to work at a range of intensities and durations to build the best overall fitness you are capable of.
Search on the terms Polarised training and Pyramidal training to gain an understanding. If you want to keep it simpler then just go hard once or twice a week at most, and make the rest of your other rides easy, and be consistent.
