Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
drkfuture
Posts: 10
Joined: 15 May 2022, 4:09am

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by drkfuture »

Pete Owens wrote: 16 May 2022, 11:58am Again, explaining the signage from a drivers perspective though extraordinarily illustrating it with a photo of an obviously incorrect sign
Image
Why do they use A STOP SIGN as above, which indicates NO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC (even bicycle), whereas they already have another sign which clearly exempt the cyclist, as in here:

Image
drkfuture
Posts: 10
Joined: 15 May 2022, 4:09am

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by drkfuture »

thirdcrank wrote: 16 May 2022, 8:06pm @drkfuture

Bearing in mind that the wrong sign may be displayed - see above - or turned round by jokers - it's important to be aware of the sometimes subtle differences in signs.

The sign here - without the vertical white line - indicates a one way street with contraflow cycling but not in a cycle lane,

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.79480 ... 384!8i8192
Thanks for sharing, yes I know this one, the vertical line actually denotes a separate lane.
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by Jdsk »

drkfuture wrote: 17 May 2022, 9:46amWhy do they use A STOP SIGN as above, which indicates NO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC (even bicycle)
Which of those do you think is a STOP sign?

Thanks

Jonathan
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by thirdcrank »

That's not a stop sign - it's no entry.

The sign you have posted - no motor vehicles means just that.

Incidentally, if you are interested in the detail of traffic signs, the Traffic Signs Manual has plenty to go at

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... gns-manual
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by mjr »

thirdcrank wrote: 17 May 2022, 9:59am That's not a stop sign - it's no entry.

The sign you have posted - no motor vehicles means just that.
Maybe they intended to use "no entry except cycles" because they considered the contraflow too narrow for horsedrawn carriages, but forgot the exception plate?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by thirdcrank »

mjr wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:02am
thirdcrank wrote: 17 May 2022, 9:59am That's not a stop sign - it's no entry.

The sign you have posted - no motor vehicles means just that.
Maybe they intended to use "no entry except cycles" because they considered the contraflow too narrow for horsedrawn carriages, but forgot the exception plate?
I've missed the point here. If anything, I'd have thought that the opening of the cycle bypass would be wide enough for that parked car to be driven through it
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

The no entry sign does not apply to the cycle bypass. There will be (or should be – but the wrong way round sign on the left of the photo doesn't inspire total confidence) another no entry sign off the right of the photo. The restriction applies between the two. If there were only one, it should be on the left of the section of carriageway to which it applies – ie where it is.
drkfuture
Posts: 10
Joined: 15 May 2022, 4:09am

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by drkfuture »

thirdcrank wrote: 17 May 2022, 9:59am That's not a stop sign - it's no entry.

The sign you have posted - no motor vehicles means just that.

Incidentally, if you are interested in the detail of traffic signs, the Traffic Signs Manual has plenty to go at

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... gns-manual
ohh uppps my bad, I mean NO ENTRY (access only). but my question was why don't they use this, this is more suitable:
Image
Pete Owens
Posts: 2442
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by Pete Owens »

drkfuture wrote: 17 May 2022, 9:46am
Pete Owens wrote: 16 May 2022, 11:58am Again, explaining the signage from a drivers perspective though extraordinarily illustrating it with a photo of an obviously incorrect sign
Image
Why do they use A STOP SIGN as above, which indicates NO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC (even bicycle), whereas they already have another sign which clearly exempt the cyclist, as in here:

Image
Because the no entry sign correctly refers to the carriageway to the right of the island (There should be another no entry sign on the RH side)

The sign that is incorrect is the blue rectangular one. (unless of course it is the paint on the road that is wrong)
ChrisButch
Posts: 1188
Joined: 24 Feb 2009, 12:10pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by ChrisButch »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 16 May 2022, 9:24am
In theory the new Government guidance (LTN 1/20) should have put an end to this. In reality we already have the situation where local authority cycling officers are going round giving talks about why LTN 1/20 is wrong. :roll:
That's the first I've heard of this. Can you give examples - and in what context did these talks take place?
Richard Fairhurst
Posts: 2030
Joined: 2 Mar 2008, 4:57pm
Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Here's one:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... .pptx.html

I thought I'd seen another similar one but can't find it off-hand - I'll keep looking.
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides
drkfuture
Posts: 10
Joined: 15 May 2022, 4:09am

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by drkfuture »

Pete Owens wrote: 17 May 2022, 12:08pm Because the no entry sign correctly refers to the carriageway to the right of the island (There should be another no entry sign on the RH side)

The sign that is incorrect is the blue rectangular one. (unless of course it is the paint on the road that is wrong)
as far as I know NO ENTRY also allows "access only" and cyclists can wheel though. There is another sign for restricting all vehicles

Image

Why is that ContraFlow Sign inappropriate here? Doesnt it mean a separate cycle lane against the flow? A relevant question is, do these signs always indicate the road on its right?
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by thirdcrank »

I think it's fair to say that there is sometimes some controversy about which signs to use to regulate traffic eg all the publicity surrounding enforcement of some bus gates. However, this is a one way street and the normal sign in this position is the no entry sign. That can have supplementary plates with exceptions eg "except pedal cycles" but that's inappropriate here because cyclists have a bypass to which the no entry sign does not apply.

If you want to know more, the Traffic Signs Manual already linked is a mine of (dis)information. Chapter Three covers the regulatory signs like No entry. Section 4 of Ch 3 deals with COMPULSORY AND PROHIBITED MOVEMENTS (eg the no entry sign) and Sec 5 covers PROHIBITION OF TRAFFIC (eg No vehicles.) You may not see a difference but "they" do.

Sec 11 deals with cycle facilities and thares quite a bit of it. An important thing about the points you raise is that the blue rectangular signs are (theoretically) informative. Although they may all look pretty much the same they should be specific to the circumstances and can have appropriate variations, all with a particular meaning. The one used in the illustrated cycle bypass above has the information which would be correct at the other end of the street ie one-way street ahead in this direction with a contraflow cycle lane (coming the other way, obviously) This can be contrasted with the sign in my streetview above which indicated one-way street with contraflow cycling but not in a contraflow lane.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ter-03.pdf

I'm not suggesting there are no other sources of info but that's official and directed at the people responsible for the signs. As you see from your own OP, simplifications and summaries can lead to misunderstanding. There's a fine line between over-simplification and endless waffle.
DaveReading
Posts: 746
Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 5:37pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by DaveReading »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:29amThere will be (or should be – but the wrong way round sign on the left of the photo doesn't inspire total confidence) another no entry sign off the right of the photo.
There is indeed one, in this instance.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is Contra-Flow Cycle lane Bi-Directional in UK?

Post by thirdcrank »

DaveReading wrote: 18 May 2022, 7:48am
Bmblbzzz wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:29amThere will be (or should be – but the wrong way round sign on the left of the photo doesn't inspire total confidence) another no entry sign off the right of the photo.
There is indeed one, in this instance.
Can you link to streetview?
Post Reply