Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

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Tangled Metal
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Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Tangled Metal »

I'm getting very annoyed with getting to and from work. Brompton has been great, stopped the northern staff from preventing me catching the train so many times in just a year. The northern train company however doesn't work quite so well. Does anyone else have a big issue with northern?

My situation is about ticketing. I have been using a smart card with a weekly season ticket bought via the website but initially reached from the app. I had no problem for best part of a year. I had username and password saved in my android phone password manager and no issues logging on like that. Then a month ago it kept saying username or password isn't correct. How was that when it's saved for a year in my phone's password manager?

Nothing I try works to get around this. Click the forgot link seems to go OK until the link I get in the email goes to a screen that simply says "Ooops, something went wrong! ". Worst error message ever IMHO.

So I used another email address to re register. I typed the new password and wrote it down exactly plus saved into password manager. At least I got a season ticket. Then next week the same issue as my first email username. This time I had a written copy of the password so I know it was right despite the northern systems said it was wrong .

So I asked the guard for a weekly season ticket. He asked fir photo card. Don't have one only smart card. He found a workaround. Got my ticket. This week I did the same getting it on the train in the day before I needed it. The different guard tried but couldn't work out how to get the ticket without the photo card. She said I needed to get one from the destination station. I tried that and she said she could do it without a photocard just my smart card and a paper ticket. Then her boss told her it couldn't be done until a later time of the day. No idea why. So I got told to come back. I did that then the guy behind b the ticket counter told me that without a photochromic he couldn't give me a ticket.

So now I have no way to save money by getting a season ticket. I'm peed off by now. But I need a ticket. So I got a new Gmail and got my ticket on my smart card. Basically I need to get a new email address every week to get a season ticket. Yes I am tight enough to get bothered over not saving the price of half a return ticket per week. That money is better in my hand than northern so I resent spending it by buying daily returns because northern have a shoot system that effectively isn't working,.

Anyway, if anyone knows a way around this please advise. If anyone has a grumble about northern please share. It is some kind of consolation to hear that other people have issues with northern too.
Jdsk
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Jdsk »

Is this about Northern Trains in the north of England?

Have you lodged a complaint?

If so has the time limit expired so that you can ask the Ombudsman?

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/making-a-complaint.aspx

Jonathan
Tangled Metal
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Tangled Metal »

Northern rail and it's been an issue for a month or so. Lodged a complaint via a link that came up somewhere in the process. Got an acknowledgement of it then an email saying not our department call this number to speak to another department. So I've probably got to free up half a hour waiting on hold then however long it takes to sort things out.

Not my department is pathetic too IMHO.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Tangled Metal »

Had a good chat with a guy from national rail. He kind of expressed what he and his colleagues thought of northern, basically they think northern have big problems. I can only agree!
Jdsk
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:11pm Is this about Northern Trains in the north of England?
Tangled Metal wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:16pm Northern rail...
I don't understand which company you are describing. Northern Rail stopped operations in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Rail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_Rail_North
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Trains

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Jdsk »

Tangled Metal wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:16pm Northern rail and it's been an issue for a month or so. Lodged a complaint via a link that came up somewhere in the process. Got an acknowledgement of it then an email saying not our department call this number to speak to another department. So I've probably got to free up half a hour waiting on hold then however long it takes to sort things out.
The link upthread describes when and how you can escalate to the Rail Ombudsman.

Jonathan
Tangled Metal
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Tangled Metal »

Jdsk wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:22pm
Jdsk wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:11pm Is this about Northern Trains in the north of England?
Tangled Metal wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:16pm Northern rail...
I don't understand which company you are describing. Northern Rail stopped operations in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Rail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_Rail_North
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Trains

Jonathan
Considering there is only one in operation now I guess it's that one. It's branded as Northern.
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simonineaston
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by simonineaston »

My experience of sundry digital rail ticket resources is that they can be subject to uncertainty in a way that hard copy seems to avoid. Annoying as it may be to have to carry one, an old-fashioned laminated photocard seems to work more reliably than its online equivalent. My experience is largely limited to the processes / kit used by First Great Western but the photocard is relevant / accepted by most train operators.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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Paulatic
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Paulatic »

Jdsk wrote: 17 May 2022, 11:22pm [
I don't understand which company you are describing. Northern Rail stopped operations in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Rail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_Rail_North
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Trains

Jonathan
You would if you knew, it’s Northern https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/

Can’t help but think that TMs trouble are more Phone/ App related than the actual trains. I have the app on IOS and it’s always performed perfectly admittedly I don’t use a smart card.
TM said, Nothing I try works to get around this. Click the forgot link seems to go OK until the link I get in the email goes to a screen that simply says "Ooops, something went wrong! ". Worst error message ever IMHO

Did you initially try the advice given by Northern? Delete App , reinstall and complete switch off and restart ( not just to Lock Screen) In the last week I’ve cured two problems for people by doing a proper restart with their phones. Both people didn’t know they could. :lol:
I find Northern a great service with bikes but I have to declare No 1 son works for them. :D
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
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simonineaston
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by simonineaston »

Can’t help but think that TMs trouble are more Phone/ App related than the actual trains.
That is my impression, too. The issues seem to center on technology. The trick in this instance is to focus hard on the 'lowest common denominator' of technologies - ie make certain you carry on your person that item which is most likely to be accepted by the largest number of agents and their kit, irresepective of how annoying that may feel. Recall for example that battery power is not 100% reliable. *
While I'm sympathetic to the original post which implies that slick digital kit sounds like a good idea and so disapponts when it doesn't work... if it only works 50% of the time, say and the old-fashioned printed paper id etc, works 98% ** of the time, say - then it's hard to conclude anything else than the paper wins, over the digital tech..
* A chum has just returned from a trip to Spain where he had to present proof of vaccination on a variety of occasions. Having dropped his phone onto hard cobbles on Day 1, he was pleased when able to present the paper copies he'd been prudent enough to take with him.
** Climate chaos raises the frequency of torrential rain, with its potential to reduce paper & card to mush...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Tangled Metal
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Tangled Metal »

The issues are many with northern, too many to list I think but just a few to give you a idea.
Training consistency - one guard can give me a season ticket but next week another can't. Fortunately in this case the guard asked around with her colleagues and now knows how it is done. One station ticket seller knew how to give me a weekly ticket but couldn't until 8:30 then later in the day the next could not and confidently said n it is not possible (added benefit of time related syste issues).

Scheduling issues - a guy from national rail said as much too. They know the busy time for trains on the route I take which is passing through the station at 4pm. That train is always standing room all the way through the two carriages, old ones at that too. They once put two such trains together and it was still standing room only before it left the station. Half hour later there's a more modern train with more capacity, plus there's less people traveling on it.

Online systems - account based system that fails if you need to get a new password. It sends a email with a link to change your password like many other sites that take your money but that link never works. It's not my tech because I've turned it off as in power off, labs then to return later and it repeats. That's not the app but the online ticket sales. They pushed smartcard tickets heavily then their system crashes. It's the system since two northern employees have told me that they've been told of quite a few issues and several customers have had issues with it too. I've uninstalled the app to reinstall it and cleared all site cookies too. I've looked online for solutions but nothing worked.

The old Northern lost franchise, then arriva got it then new northern got it. I wonder if the new northern are on their way to going the same way as the old northern. That's not just my opinion but the National rail guy hinted at problems with them too. Internal gossip I guess.

Then there's the bike issue. I've had to argue with the guard to get my Brompton on the train when there were cases twice the size in the bike area. I really need to bookmark it print something from their site or T&Cs about folding bikes. I once got told a folding bike as compact as the Brompton is classed as luggage and you cannot be turned away with it folded. Plus they've been a bit heavy handed at a few times with cyclists on quiet trains too.
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simonineaston
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by simonineaston »

Hmmm. Kind-of reflects my experience of travel with FGW, back when I used to commute. it's such a crying shame too 'cos when it all works properly, train travel should be a delight. I had a friend back then who started work in the revenue protection team (that's what ticket inspectors are called...) so I had a bit of insight of what to do and how to do it. The friendliest and best informed ticket sellers were the long-term staff based at Temple Mead station and a couple of them in particular had a seemingly encylopeadic knowledge of the serpentine ticket arrangments.
In the end I had it down pat and had my photo card / rail card combo and tickets that I used to buy via the platform machine (when they worked...) once I knew what to get.
Then there's the issue of train scheduling and reliabiity... since my GP has recently identified a tendancy to mild hypertension, I think I'll gloss over all that and simply say that my experience of rail travel has improved since retirement as I no longer have to turn up to a work place on time. :lol: Suffice to say that my local train home would regularly be delayed to make way for the inter-city coming out of Bristol Parkway, itself delayed, sometimes to the extent that it would simply not stop at my local station in order to try to make up time - almost unbelievable state of affairs !!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Tangled Metal
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by Tangled Metal »

The funny thing is that my morning train is often used for training. One guy who sounded like an old hack telling a newbie about the dodges and tricks he's learnt. Funny conversation I thought at the time but not now.

The stopping for fast trains happens everywhere. Most annoying when the train you're on was actually on time for once only to lose time due to a late express train.

Funny thing on today's train, later one as I missed my usual, was the guard was late doing the doors. I was at the bike end, other end to the guard, and it took ages for the guard to do the doors. It made me think he wasn't going to! Same thing happened at the next to last station when a guy felt he had to run along the inside of the train to get out thinking the doors weren't being opened. That is a new one!
ChrisL
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Re: Commuting with Brompton and Northern - one works the other doesn't!

Post by ChrisL »

Northern Trains is publicly owned. I understand that the DfT like to micro-manage everything but one can only guess if that is causing problems.
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