Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by cycle tramp »

So, my work has employed some health & safety officers to look at all our policies. This includes travelling between sites for work purposes..

..they've recommended that helmet and hi-vis be worn and that cycle paths are used where possible for all staff employed in works time travelling between sites by bicycle..

..normally we'd ignore it, but they've asked us to sign and date a document saying that we've read understood and will obey it..
..I've said that I wouldn't unless they've changed the wording to 'cycle paths to be used where practical'

...at this point I need some advice. Is my place of work right in restricting how I use the road network? Do I have any recourse to object and if so on what grounds? Any advice would be appreciated :-)
It's time to go :-)
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Psamathe »

(I'm no employment lawyer so below is how I'd react not advice)
I would be asking why they are overriding the Highway Code (adding rules that Highway Code considered not worthy of including). I'd be asking how many of these "Safety Officers" are regular active cyclists and appreciate the impact of the rules they are trying to enforce.

What is the basis of your travel between sites i.e. is it part of your job requirement so is it a company responsibility or is it something you do by way of cooperation and being helpful. If a job requirement they surely they should be providing transport? If a job requirement then adding new rules sounds to me like a contract modification so what can they do if you say "no". I find even a Hi-vis waistcoat can make me too hot in summer appart from it being perfect camouflage against a field of oil rape seed.

Show them Ian Walkers research paper(s) and ask them why they ae not requiring you all to wear a blond wig (I can send you a copy).

Get them to read e.g.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-11- ... avior.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7506001540
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-11-high-visibility-ineffective-driver-behavior.html wrote:We can't make cycling safer by telling cyclists what they should wear.
But I'm a pretty contrary person when it comes to rules e.g. Brittany Ferries rule that you must wear a helmet makes he tie my helmet to my rer rack in full view and not on my head. And my dislike of rules means I do cycle off their ferry (and invariably get shouted at by crew).

Ian
slowster
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by slowster »

Has your employer stated that it is going to provide you with a helmet (and hi-viz), or give you the money to buy them?
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Jdsk »

Are you an ordinary employee, not a contractor or on some sort of gig contract?

Do you belong to a Union or similar?

Have the documents included a risk assessment?

Or any mention of an objective of the policy being to avoid contributory negligence?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Jdsk »

I'd recommend reading:

About cases where a claim for contributory negligence has followed not wearing a helmet. Or high visibility clothing if there are any.
https://www.weightmans.com/insights/cyc ... revisited/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... gal-status
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle/contributory-negligence
https://www.braininjurygroup.co.uk/news ... egligence/

About what happened with the Post Office.
viewtopic.php?p=1452625#p1452625

The recent decision of Pedal Me the other way.
viewtopic.php?p=1692822&hilit=pedal+me#p1692822

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 18 May 2022, 9:23pm, edited 6 times in total.
Stevek76
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Stevek76 »

If it's the cycle paths part you're concerned about doesn't possible provide as much leeway as practical?

Certainly used to be a favourite for Bristol council in the context of providing actually decent cycle infrastructure as a general get out for not following the transport hierarchy. (I.e., segregated cycling provided 'where possible' which basically translated as 'not if we have to remove a motor traffic lane or parking').

Also as far as I'm aware, if your employer is insisting you wear high vis then its on them to provide it (and that it is correctly fitting and comfortable). The helmet I'm less sure that applies to as it has a weird status in UK H&S law.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
DevonDamo
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 1:42am

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by DevonDamo »

cycle tramp wrote: 18 May 2022, 8:34pmIs my place of work right in restricting how I use the road network? Do I have any recourse to object and if so on what grounds? Any advice would be appreciated :-)
Yes , providing you're actually 'at work' whilst riding between sites your employer can insist you wear hi vis, helmet - and mickey mouse ears if that's what they want. There may be all sorts of ways to request an exception to their policy, e.g. via a safety committee or just talking to the boss. This sort of issue is not uncommon on industrial sites - a typical example being management deciding to apply a blanket 'wear safety eyewear when out on plant' rule, which often produces complaints from people who aren't actually going to be doing anything that puts their eyes at risk and find they're uncomfortable or give them headaches. If you do want to 'appeal' a decision of this sort, it would be a good idea to prepare your case - and the arguments for/against helmets and hi vis have been discussed ad nauseum on here, with research cited etc.
gbnz
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by gbnz »

cycle tramp wrote: 18 May 2022, 8:34pm So, my work has employed some health & safety officers to look at all our policies. This includes travelling between sites for work purposes..

..they've recommended that helmet and hi-vis be worn and that cycle paths are used where possible for all staff employed in works time travelling between sites by bicycle..

..normally we'd ignore it, but they've asked us to sign and date a document saying that we've read understood and will obey it..
..I've said that I wouldn't unless they've changed the wording to 'cycle paths to be used where practical'

...at this point I need some advice. Is my place of work right in restricting how I use the road network? Do I have any recourse to object and if so on what grounds? Any advice would be appreciated :-)
As above, are you an employee? If so, using your own bike, during work time, to undertake work related activities, isn't too unreasonable an approach by an employer. And they have taken measures to comply with the general principles of the 1974 Health & Safety, by assessing and putting in preventative measures in respect to the risk posed.

It isn't unreasonable to insist that employees travelling within work time, whilst undertaking work related activities comply with corporate health & safety measures. Insisting that cycle paths and/or lanes, helmets, hi visibility garments etc, etc are used, is quite reasonable.

In the event of an accident, I'd be assessing the size of the corporation, the basis on which employees are using their own bicycles during work time, whether the corporation should have provided bicycles, ensuring effective statutory compliance and maintenance measures were in place, whether the corporation should have provided or insisted on alternative means of travel I.e. bus, car, foot, train in order to mitigate the risk, whether too much stress is being put upon various employees physiological state......

There's no reason why you couldn't object, but it'd seem to be primarily based upon personal preferences in respect to bicycle travel
Pete Owens
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Pete Owens »

slowster wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:00pm Has your employer stated that it is going to provide you with a helmet (and hi-viz), or give you the money to buy them?
If they are requiring them as items of PPE then they must provide them by law.
slowster
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by slowster »

Stevek76 wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:08pm Also as far as I'm aware, if your employer is insisting you wear high vis then its on them to provide it (and that it is correctly fitting and comfortable).
Correct. I suspect the H&S 'officer' and the employer are justing thinking of a hi-viz vest, which only costs a few quid. However, there is a case to be made that a vest is not sufficient. There is a legal requirement that roadworkers have hi-viz jackets (with sleeves), and similarly police etc. will wear hi-viz jackets on the road, not just vests. So if a risk assessment has determined that hi-viz is necessary, why has it not specified the level of hi-viz that is considered appropriate and necessary for use on the highway?

I wonder if the employer envisages coughing up for a lightweight mesh hi-viz jacket for summer use, and another for winter which arguably would need to be gore tex or a similar breathable fabric, plus a waterproof helmet cover.
Stevek76 wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:08pm The helmet I'm less sure that applies to as it has a weird status in UK H&S law.
I am not particularly familiar with the case, but apparently the Post Office lost a court case* which determined that cycle helmets could not be deemed personal protective equipment by an employer, and so the employer could not insist upon them being worn for H&S purposes (and the Post Office circumvented the legal ruling by making cycle helmets part of the official uniform). If what I have read of that case is correct, then it presumably applies similarly in the OP's case as far as the helmet is concerned.

* Edit, based on Jdsk's link above, it looks like there was not a court case, but rather the HSE refused to support the Post Office in enforcing its policy to wear helmets. That was presumably because cycle helmets are not deemed PPE in the eyes of the law, i.e. they are deliberately excluded from the Personal Protective Equipment Regulations. It follows therefore that an employer would probably lose at an industrial tribunal if it took disciplinary action against an employee for not wearing a helmet (unless it could use the Post Office's justification that the helmet was part of the employee's uniform).
Last edited by slowster on 18 May 2022, 9:55pm, edited 3 times in total.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Jdsk »

DevonDamo wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:32pmYes , providing you're actually 'at work' whilst riding between sites your employer can insist you wear hi vis, helmet - and mickey mouse ears if that's what they want.
In England employers' dress codes must meet statutory legislation on discrimination and be reasonable.

Jonathan
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Psamathe »

Should they (the employer) not also be requiring your personal bike be regularly professionally serviced in which case they need to specify service intervals and pay for the servicing.

Most companies I've worked for, if you travel on company business using your own car they pay you an allowance that includes an element for wear and tear, maintenance as well as fuel. If they are constraining how you use your bike then they need to do a proper job and pay for it.

Ian
DevonDamo
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by DevonDamo »

Jdsk wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:51pm
DevonDamo wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:32pmYes , providing you're actually 'at work' whilst riding between sites your employer can insist you wear hi vis, helmet - and mickey mouse ears if that's what they want.
In England employers' dress codes must meet statutory legislation on discrimination and be reasonable.

Jonathan
Do you believe this is relevant to the OP's question?
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Jdsk »

DevonDamo wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:59pm
Jdsk wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:51pm
DevonDamo wrote: 18 May 2022, 9:32pmYes , providing you're actually 'at work' whilst riding between sites your employer can insist you wear hi vis, helmet - and mickey mouse ears if that's what they want.
In England employers' dress codes must meet statutory legislation on discrimination and be reasonable.
Do you believe this is relevant to the OP's question?
I believe that it corrects an error about the powers of employers over employees. And that those powers are precisely the subject of one of the OP's questions and what this thread is about.

Jonathan
Psamathe
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Psamathe »

I would assume that if you are not prepared to accept a rule change on your travel in work time then you can just say you are not prepared to use your personal bike for company business under the constraints they are applying.

Provided you can justify your reasons e.g. one town near me the shared use cycle path keeps rejoining the carriageway than leaving then rejoining, etc. and I personally regard the re-joining the road as one of the more dangerous parts. I'd rather be on and stay on the road rather than on->off->on->off. On the road you don't have the issue of roads joining but on the shared use cycle path you have to cross the joining road. For my personal riding I regard such cycle paths are a lot worse than just being on the road.

Ian
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