High cost of joining a cycling event

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
leftpoole
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by leftpoole »

531colin wrote: 19 May 2022, 1:13pm These "events" also create a lot of anti-cyclist feeling.
Some participants behave as if they are riding on closed roads, and they are not! Normal rules of the road apply.
The organisers don't usually bother to talk to residents at all, the only "notice" you get is the arrows appearing attached to road signs, etc ......these usually remain in place until the next "event" brings about their removal.
Putting a feeding station where the verderers round up the ponies every year is guaranteed to upset the locals.
I used to live, up until 6 years ago, on the edge of the New Forest. Cycling events are ruining any tolerance the residents have. Cyclists peeing up against peoples front garden walls etc. Chucking litter.
Keep away from New Forest events because sooner or later these events will come back to bash the organiser on the nose. These events are being monitored by Police.
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mjr
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by mjr »

PT1029 wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:46am Our local CUK group rides are free. [...] You also pay you membership fee I suppose, but that is pretty much in line with what you'd pay for other similar types of organisation.
So not free at all, then. CUK membership fee is in line with British Cycling, but far higher than most local cycling groups.
rareposter wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:57am
AlanD wrote: 19 May 2022, 3:44am what am I getting out of this, apart from a couple of cheap freebies, a medal I don’t need and some strangers cheering when I finish?
A researched/risk assessed route.
Signage.
A gpx file.
Feed stations.
Mechanical support.
A broom wagon and first aid provision.
Event insurance.
Some sort of "memory" of the day be that photos, medal, certificate, goodie bag...
Riding with other people you wouldn't normally meet, potentially riding in an area you might not normally visit.
Taking each of these in turn:
the risk assessment is usually generic and very few sportives check the route on the day for hazards that can appear overnight (such as debris washed onto roads);
the signage is usually left up for months afterwards until locals tire of it or the highway litter-cleaners notice it;
plenty of gpx files online;
Feed stations are usually full of junk food, often without allergen labelling;
Mechanical support is highly variable depending on whether a local mechanic has been conned into providing free services in return for a sponsor credit;
broom wagon and first aid provision are also not always extensive;
Event insurance usually has so many exclusions that it covers the event organisers well while participants are left exposed;
The mementoes are usually cheap tat;
And you won't often be riding with other people you don't know because the 200 or whatever will be spread thin over a long route and it's very unusual for groups to form who don't already know each other, and you could always visit that area another time.
You haven't said what event it is but some events might have a section of closed road or private road you wouldn't normally get to ride on.
Again, depending on the event, some will have some stuff going on at event HQ - decent refreshments, showers, a few trade stalls, a connection to a charity...
To me, riding closed or private roads, or a good show at the finish (and I mean something like music or movies, not a few trade stalls) is one of the few reasons to take part.
PH wrote: 19 May 2022, 11:43am If it's a professional event you're paying for staff, that's probably where the majority of your entry fee goes.
:lol: So why do the "professional" events keep trying to get volunteers to do the boring bits like marshalling? Even RideLondon does that and the others I've seen locally definitely do, often partnering with a local bunch of suckers Cycling UK Affiliate Group.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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rareposter
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by rareposter »

mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 10:53am Taking each of these in turn:
the risk assessment is usually generic and very few sportives check the route on the day for hazards that can appear overnight (such as debris washed onto roads);
Risk Assessments aren't generic at all, they're specific to each event. OK, the basic hazards are often generic (junctions, traffic, debris on the road and so on) but an event RA will certainly specify junctions - it's then used to determine what signage is used and where, if marshals might need to be deployed, entry and exit for feedstations and so on.

Debris on the road, potholes etc are generic - no RA would ever specify the location of all debris or every pothole or drainage grid but that's covered under the provision that you're riding on open public roads, look where you're going, call out hazards, obey the Highway Code blah blah.
mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 10:53am
:lol: So why do the "professional" events keep trying to get volunteers to do the boring bits like marshalling? Even RideLondon does that and the others I've seen locally definitely do, often partnering with a local bunch of suckers Cycling UK Affiliate Group.
Because no event company anywhere can afford to keep dozens of marshals on a full-time contract and transport them around the country to each event. The vast majority of sporting events from cycling (everything from sportives to grass-roots racing to the Tour de France) to Formula 1 absolutely rely on a large volunteer workforce.
mattheus
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by mattheus »

mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 10:53am
PT1029 wrote: 19 May 2022, 6:46am Our local CUK group rides are free. [...] You also pay you membership fee I suppose, but that is pretty much in line with what you'd pay for other similar types of organisation.
So not free at all, then. CUK membership fee is in line with British Cycling, but far higher than most local cycling groups.
Well ... as I'm sure you know, you can do several CUK rides FREE before you join (and BC will be similar?), so the cost-per-ride for 99.99% of riders will be tiny!
mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 10:53am To me, riding closed or private roads, or a good show at the finish (and I mean something like music or movies, not a few trade stalls) is one of the few reasons to take part.
PH wrote: 19 May 2022, 11:43am If it's a professional event you're paying for staff, that's probably where the majority of your entry fee goes.
:lol: So why do the "professional" events keep trying to get volunteers to do the boring bits like marshalling? Even RideLondon does that and the others I've seen locally definitely do, often partnering with a local bunch of suckers Cycling UK Affiliate Group.
Because of unique stuff like closed roads, I'm prepared to live-and-let-live a bit with these events: I do get why they appeal to some.
And I would agree that once you start costing organisers' time (even at min wage!) then £50 starts to look pretty bloody cheap for most of them.

However, where this idea of get-what-you-pay-for falls apart - as MJR posted above - is when the commercial events start roping in volunteers. The bloody cheek!
I've even seen it at Ironman events - I mean the "official" ones, which really are a licence to print money. The result is a few dentists-with-pinarellos swanning round for the day, stuffing cash into entrepeneurs' pockets while volunteers cheer them on at every corner. Of course the cash-rich-time-poor types are not available to help at their local low-key cycling event ...

Bizarre!
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mjr
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by mjr »

rareposter wrote: 20 May 2022, 11:58am Risk Assessments aren't generic at all, they're specific to each event. OK, the basic hazards are often generic (junctions, traffic, debris on the road and so on) but an event RA will certainly specify junctions - it's then used to determine what signage is used and where, if marshals might need to be deployed, entry and exit for feedstations and so on.
I find your faith in the diligence of commercial event organisers and near-refusal to consider the incentive that the profit motive gives for cost-cutting very touching indeed. I am glad that there are such innocents in the world.

Even things like junctions, feed stations and marshal deployments are sometimes pretty generic in the risk assessment, specifying the measures taken in terms of number of arms on the junction, visibility and so on. I know at least one locally was like that. There was an ambulance-required incident on it, but the risk assessment did not seem to be a factor, so I don't really know what would happen if it was and the organiser was found to be using an overly-generic one.
Debris on the road, potholes etc are generic - no RA would ever specify the location of all debris or every pothole or drainage grid but that's covered under the provision that you're riding on open public roads, look where you're going, call out hazards, obey the Highway Code blah blah.
Can't all of them? And "obey the Highway Code" seems like a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for organisers because no sportive ever has every rider do that.
mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 10:53am :lol: So why do the "professional" events keep trying to get volunteers to do the boring bits like marshalling? Even RideLondon does that and the others I've seen locally definitely do, often partnering with a local bunch of suckers Cycling UK Affiliate Group.
Because no event company anywhere can afford to keep dozens of marshals on a full-time contract and transport them around the country to each event. The vast majority of sporting events from cycling (everything from sportives to grass-roots racing to the Tour de France) to Formula 1 absolutely rely on a large volunteer workforce.
Leaving aside whether sportives are sporting or only sport-ish, does this mean that the vast majority of these events are not commercially viable?

I also note that while cycling events often have to pay top money to close roads (which is why so many are open roads or at best rolling closure), Formula 1 at Silverstone externalises a lot of its costs each race by simply clogging large chunks of Northants, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire, plus at least three National Highways. They pay a token amount towards highways improvements when they need planning permission, but I bet it doesn't cover half of it. What could cycling do with that level of stealth funding?
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Blondie
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by Blondie »

AlanD wrote: 19 May 2022, 3:44am I don’t mind paying a fiver to join an audax, but this is put on by professional event op Even for Audax costs can quickly ramp up, LEL is £360 for the 4 day event, no one is profiteering from that.
LEL is 5 days don’t undersell it!
rareposter
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by rareposter »

mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 12:49pm
I find your faith in the diligence of commercial event organisers and near-refusal to consider the incentive that the profit motive gives for cost-cutting very touching indeed. I am glad that there are such innocents in the world.
I don't doubt for a second that there are some "tickbox" organisers out there who basically go "umm, well there are some junctions and we might put some signs out but um, yeah,don't ride like a pillock".
However, most are actually pretty diligent - even if that's only because they might end up being sued. As a general rule, most organisers (even the commercial ones) of any event (cycling or otherwise) are organising because they like the sport, have been involved with it for a while etc. As a result, no-one wants to put on a really rubbish event that's going to get slated and very very few people are making a huge amount of money out of it. Event organisation is not the quick route to millions that some people seem to think it is.

A club putting on an event or two a year might bolster club funds by a couple of thousand pounds at best (you generally get better return on Sportives than you do on organising races). The true commercial enterprises such as Wiggle Super Series tie their events to the online shopping platform so they're not reliant on the events themselves making a profit; you can easily direct people off to buy all sorts of stuff off your website including training plans and actually, the main thing they're getting off that is data mining and potential new customers.

If you're a new cyclist, searching online for a cycling event, WSS is always going to be fairly near top of the list even if you've never heard of Wiggle as an online bike shop - sign up to the event and bingo, you get emails telling you to buy nutrition and a training plan and "things you might need" and other events you might like and hey, if you sign up to 4 events, you get the 5th free. And then if you buy £500+ off the website, you get a 10% discount on anything else for the year... The "event" is just a lead-in to all that.

Evans did it for a while with their Sportives - you could sign up to try out a new GPS or wheels or a waterproof. If you bought the item afterwards, your "hire fee" for it was knocked off the RRP.

It's not about the event itself, it's about the marketing. However, to get new customers and keep them coming back, you need to put on a good event, not a half-hearted "that'll do" effort.
francovendee
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by francovendee »

When first moving here I did many randonées in this area. They were never expensive, usually about 5€. You had a choice of routes, 20 to 75 km. The route was sign posted and had two or three stops along the way for orange juice, water coffee, fruit or a slice of honey cake. No certificate if you reached the end but given a ham filled baguette.
Any money left from the events would be given to the charity it was supporting.
I found they were a great way to discover tracks and small roads that I didn't know.

Would I pay £50 to ride any event? Not a chance.

I'm shortly going on a 10 km evening walk organised by the village football club. This is expensive at 12€ a head but it comes with food. You start off at the village hall and are given wine and some nibbles. Then off for a couple of km and stop at a barn where you get your starter and more wine. Another few km then the main course at another barn along with more wine. Then the last leg to yet another barn for desert and yet more wine. Finally back to the start for a coffee.
It's all good fun but we make sure we never take the car and walk (wobble) the 2 km home at around midnight.
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by PH »

mjr wrote: 20 May 2022, 10:53am
PH wrote: 19 May 2022, 11:43am If it's a professional event you're paying for staff, that's probably where the majority of your entry fee goes.
:lol: So why do the "professional" events keep trying to get volunteers to do the boring bits like marshalling?
I don't find that contradictory.
rareposter
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by rareposter »

francovendee wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:57am When first moving here I did many randonées in this area. They were never expensive, usually about 5€. You had a choice of routes, 20 to 75 km. The route was sign posted and had two or three stops along the way for orange juice, water coffee, fruit or a slice of honey cake. No certificate if you reached the end but given a ham filled baguette.
Any money left from the events would be given to the charity it was supporting.
I found they were a great way to discover tracks and small roads that I didn't know.
Sportives on the continent are amazing. Usually pretty cheap (unless it's something big like Etape du Tour) and well-supported. Unlike in the UK where even the mention of closing a road gets all the locals up in a froth of rage about about they'll be trapped in their houses for HOURS, over there the locals actively support it all.

Events are often highly subsidised by the town council who know how good it is for tourism hence the low entry fee.

The roads, driving standards, riding standards and weather all tend to be a lot better on the continent too!
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foxyrider
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by foxyrider »

rareposter wrote: 21 May 2022, 10:43am
Sportives on the continent are amazing. Usually pretty cheap (unless it's something big like Etape du Tour) and well-supported. Unlike in the UK where even the mention of closing a road gets all the locals up in a froth of rage about about they'll be trapped in their houses for HOURS, over there the locals actively support it all.

Events are often highly subsidised by the town council who know how good it is for tourism hence the low entry fee.

The roads, driving standards, riding standards and weather all tend to be a lot better on the continent too!
Have to agree - and i've ridden across the spectrum from local club organised to big business. Maybe its a mindset but when i ride in Austria or Germany the whole community gets involved and as a result there is more acceptance of road closures etc. The bigger events will attract riders from near and far so accomodation can be at a premium, restaurants busy and contrary to an earlier comment, i have made friends with people and been part of a group quite often. In the UK there is no sense of Heimat, community if you like, there may be several events on in a location but no-one has joined the dots, everyone wants their own private bit of England (other countries are available)
Convention? what's that then?
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briansnail
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by briansnail »

Think its worth do a couple every year.Its motivating to see how you fare/compete with the youngsters with the passage of years.
I like getting my favourite cycling jersey on.If you do to many that's when its gets boring.
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speedsixdave
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Re: High cost of joining a cycling event

Post by speedsixdave »

I've done a few of these things, each for a reason. The Pembrokeshire 100 a couple of times, as something serious to aim at and get fit for, and because we have friends in Pembrokeshire. The Oxfordshire white roads, as a chance to do a decent 'white roads' ride with a friend of mine, on roads we didn't know without too much map reading and dead ending. They've been pretty well organised and good fun, and I've met people and ridden in roads I wouldn't have done otherwise.

Better still are the retro and Eroicae events. I live in Derbyshire and the Eroica Britannia years were full of folk telling me they didn't need to pay £60 to ride round the Peaks on an old bike. But did they? I think not. I found the chance to meet loads of interesting folk with interesting bikes pretty fantastic, and the ride itself was a bit of a bonus, though I am definitely more Velo Retro than Eroica Britannia Goodwood.
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