Ventoux - how tough?

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Brianjeff50
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Joined: 17 Jul 2019, 1:50pm

Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Brianjeff50 »

A climb of Ventoux is one of those bucket list items and I’d like to give it a go before I’m too old rather than just old (74). So this year I hope.
Obviously I don’t want to be demoralised by total failure so how tough and how best to prepare - gear ratios etc rather than training. Current bike is a Kinesis 4s with 50/34 and 11-32 gearing.
I’m not a great climber and living in flat Suffolk doesn’t help but I did an end-to-end in 2020 and I’ve done a couple of big climbs in Ireland, albeit at grinding pace.
And what about coming down? If I can’t get up I just stop - coming down it is not quite so simple I fear!
djb
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

Not being a roadie, can't really comment on your gearing but I assume you'll be unloaded right?
As everyone's fitness is different, it seems to me your only way forward is to get all the ventoux gradients and distances, and hit similar gradients near chez vous, and extrapolate the distances, see how you are going.

And just accept a slow pace, but at least see if lower gearing would be of help, your low is probably 27 gear inches ish, and unlikely that on that bike you can put more than a 32t, maybe a 34, but the difference would be so small.

Good luck with evaluating your capabilities on similarly graded hills, doing beaucoup de repeats.

Re descending, don't drag brakes, builds up heat, get comfortable at speed and making predominantly hard front brake applications to dump speed, release, hard braking again, repeat.
Too much extended brake dragging can get you into brake fade trouble, disc or rim, and don't be shy to stop and let things cool if needed.

Hope you can make your dream happen.
Tiggertoo
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Tiggertoo »

Brian,

As I understand the Ventoux, the rise is 5,305 feet over 13.5 miles, which equates to an 8% rise, if that is correct - happy to be corrected on that - I would have thought for a pro racer your gear ratio would be no problem :roll: however, as it is, I think you are too low (high?) at 50/34 and 11-32 gearing. As this is on your bucket list and cost should not be an issue, I suggest you either get a long arm derailleur - if you don't already - and get a 34 (although as offered above it doesn't help a whole lot) but much better if you change the low chain ring to a 24 (you'll have to change the big ring as well of course).

Trundling away for nigh on 14 miles at a steep gradient (maybe for 2 - 3 hours) will knock your quads into agony territory if you are not used to climbing. Drink lots of fluid - at least a quart and a half over the distance - and electrolytes to counteract the muscle stress.

As far as braking going down, feathering the brakes is best. On a ride down Loveland Pass (12,000 feet) in Colorado, I hit 50 MPH. It was glorious!

The Ventoux sounds like a fun ride :P keep in touch.
Jdsk
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Jdsk »

As well as your training and the bike...

What are your thoughts about logistics: length of trip, where to stay, solo or group, clothing, food and drink, and have you studied the interesting weather conditions?

I hope that it all works out. The nearest we've ever got was circling it on the France en Velo route... and looking at it for a long time.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Jdsk »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 21 May 2022, 1:31pmI’m not a great climber and living in flat Suffolk doesn’t help but I did an end-to-end in 2020 and I’ve done a couple of big climbs in Ireland, albeit at grinding pace.
Tiggertoo wrote: 21 May 2022, 3:34pm Trundling away for nigh on 14 miles at a steep gradient (maybe for 2 - 3 hours) will knock your quads into agony territory if you are not used to climbing. Drink lots of fluid - at least a quart and a half over the distance - and electrolytes to counteract the muscle stress.
What's the possibility of some practice climbing trips in addition to the muscular and cardiorespiratory training?

Jonathan
Tiggertoo
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Tiggertoo »

What's the possibility of some practice climbing trips
Climbing practice is of course the best and I seek out as many climbs as I can. Even Suffolk has some hills close to the coast or even parking lot ramps. Failing that if a stationary bike is available, stand on the pedals for hour long practices at highest resistance.
Naturally, walking up the Ventoux pushing the bike is okay as well - although I do recognize that will defeat the object of the trip.
Bsteel
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Bsteel »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 21 May 2022, 1:31pm A climb of Ventoux is one of those bucket list items and I’d like to give it a go before I’m too old rather than just old (74).
Have you decided which of the 3 possible routes you'll be targetting, I assume the classic one from Bedoin ? Not that I've ridden any of them personally.
simonhill
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by simonhill »

No hills, try seafront against the wind.

I tried practising on hills in England before some big Asian climbs. Trouble is none were anywhere near long enough, which meant I couldn't get into the groove. Going up, down and up again and again will give you the overall elevation, but not the unending grind. Nonetheless, better than nothing.

The descending. Fly down, flat out if you want but expect to feel a bit flat when you get to the bottom.

My preferred way is to whizz down a bit then stop and admire the view, admire the climb you've just done and enjoy. Then whizz down a bit more and stop again, repeat as often as you want. This way you will really enjoy the hill you have just struggled up (climbing, I rarely remember or even see much other that he tarmac under my front wheel).
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MrsHJ
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by MrsHJ »

It’s fine. I did it from Sault and another route joins you at chalet Reynard. I didn’t even stop and I’m by nature a fairly lazy mountain climber. This is the route that will take you past Tommy Simpson memorial (we’d visited it by car the previous day).

My friends wanted to do the Ventoux when we were on a fully loaded camping trip and I talked them out of it. Then they dragged me fully laden up the col du tourmalet the next year but I went back and did the Ventoux a couple of years later as I felt that it was one I’d missed. Try and do it in the morning or on an overcast day due to the lack of tree cover -but honestly it’s fairly fast- you won’t be exposed for hours in the heat if you get the timing right. Actually the Montaigne de la lure was a much nicer and shaded ride but there’s plenty of cycling to do in the area and I get the bucket list thing. We stayed at Banon.

On training. I didn’t do any mountain training- but I was a regular gym attender and audaxer at the time, but not when I did the tourmalet- I just did that slowly. We did a lot of the Pyrenean climbs on that trip, all fully laden and with hybrid bikes. I’ve done far tougher but usually shorter climbs in Devon and in France. The proper cols have really sensible gradients so they aren’t that tough, they are just long. Do your usual training for a cycle trip (if any), do not be put off by lack of fitness, excess weight, the wrong equipment etc- it’s an absolutely fabulous area and you will have a lovely trip. One thought is that you make it a fortnight trip and do a bit of cycling fit whilst in France then do the climb towards the end of the trip.

Coming down is the best bit- make sure your brakes are ok and no need to do it at Tour de France pace. I’ve definitely become a slower descender over the years. Do you have a partner or friend that will travel with you- I do most of my trips solo these days but my now husband did the ventoux with me and it might help to have someone to plan with and encourage you ? I assume catch the ferry and drive down with the bike (s).

Image
Last edited by MrsHJ on 21 May 2022, 7:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
djb
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

Tiggertoo wrote: 21 May 2022, 3:34pm
As far as braking going down, feathering the brakes is best. On a ride down Loveland Pass (12,000 feet) in Colorado, I hit 50 MPH. It was glorious!
Just be careful about this feathering recommendation. Going down passes loaded is one thing, and different descents vary greatly in terms of grade, hairpins, headwind, sight lines, possible side roads or entrances that a car can turn into or out of.....

But generally, feathering just builds up heat with only a certain amount of slowing down.
A lot of people aren't comfortable braking hard, especially with the front, then letting the bike go a bit, giving heat build up to dissipate, then brake again.

And some people aren't comfortable with x speed, and or have the experience to evaluate x speed for a given situation.

I've over heated car brakes on mountain descents from feathering too much for too long, on motorcycles (albeit on track with extreme hard repeated use) and on bikes (specifically in the Pyrenees, where I learned my mistake from prolonged moderate feathering)

So while there's no black and white answer here, prolonged feathering is not a good braking method.
ossie
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by ossie »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 21 May 2022, 1:31pm Current bike is a Kinesis 4s with 50/34 and 11-32 gearing.
The only thing I can offer is that I've done the climb with the same gearing as you...however its the virtual climb on a smart trainer using Zwift. It's mean to be pretty accurate and replicates the climb from Bédoin . No really issues, a few sections of 12/13% where you might want to get out of the saddle but otherwise just spinning away, I didn't run out of gears.
bohrsatom
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by bohrsatom »

I've done the real deal climb with 48/34 at the front and 11/34 at the back. I took the route from Bedoin - the early part of the climb isn't challenging but after 5kms or so you hit the forest and have to deal with 9 or 10kms at an average of 9% or more. Chalet Reynard onwards is IMO the toughest part of the climb, but you're riding through the 'moonscape' and there's plenty to distract you from the gradient.

I remember spending most of the climb in my lowest gear, and wishing I had lower, so I'd recommend looking for a way to get some lower gearing if at all possible. The goal should be to spin your way to the top and the extra gearing will make all the difference.

Bring a jacket/gilet to keep you warm on the descent as the first few kms can be pretty chilly
Tiggertoo
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Tiggertoo »

So while there's no black and white answer here, prolonged feathering is not a good braking method
Each to their own, and it works for me.
djb
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

Tiggertoo wrote: 21 May 2022, 10:22pm
So while there's no black and white answer here, prolonged feathering is not a good braking method
Each to their own, and it works for me.
I certainly do it sometimes also, and the bike weight is a huge factor. A 18 pound bike is a lot easier to stop than a 80 pound bike.
But in the end, it's about knowing the limits of your bike+you+gear for those specific situations and speeds involved. I've descended mountains loaded and unloaded, rim brakes and discs, and like you, I love descending fast if the conditions warrant.
But (hopefully, touch wood) am making the proper judgement calls on what stopping ability I have and what is prudent for the specific situation.
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speedsixdave
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by speedsixdave »

Only you will know whether you are confident with 34x32 - about 28". How have you found it on UK hills?

I did it twenty years ago, on a converted mountain bike tourer with four panniers and full camping gear, with a bottom gear of 24x32 or 19.5". From Sault, via Chalet Reynard and the Tommy Simpson memorial. Also 50mph on the descent, with rather underpowered cantilevered brakes. I was the fittest I've ever been on a bike, after three weeks touring in the Alps.

I don't think, as a bit of topography, it's as hard as the Galibier or the Tourmalet or indeed the Col de Romme, which was an Alpine horror, let alone some of the sustained 1-in-5 and steeper hills in the UK, such as Hardknott Pass or the Devil's Staircase or Rosedale Chimney. It certainly does not have the technical difficulty of those sort of climbs, of trying to keep momentum on the ultra-steep bits while trying not to lift the front wheel or let the back wheel lose traction. It's just a pretty long, pretty steep hill.

For me, the killer on the Ventoux was the wind. I had an old Cateye computer then and there was a moment when I was pushing hard, presumably in bottom gear, on the moonscape and into the headwind, and the computer genuinely read 0km/h. You might get a day without wind, which will be fine, or you might get the full 320km/h wind , in which case you may struggle.

If you can get your bottom gear a bit lower, down to 22" or 24", you should have no problems at all. But doing that on a modern bike is sometimes more difficult than climbing Mont Ventoux!
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