Ventoux - how tough?

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MrsHJ
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by MrsHJ »

The Galibier is in my bucket list and I’m glad to see I’m not the only one climbing with full camping gear. I remember the Marie Blanque being tough but the only place I’ve nearly lifted the front wheel off the ground was in crazy steep stuff in Devon.

Him indoors blew out an outer tyre going down the Asturian mountains heading towards Santander when his brake pulled too hard and slipped slightly. I had a spare outer with us so it wasn’t a total disaster but it was a bit of a shock- Big Bang.
Last edited by MrsHJ on 21 May 2022, 11:24pm, edited 2 times in total.
djb
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

speedsixdave wrote: 21 May 2022, 10:38pm Only you will know whether you are confident with 34x32 - about 28". How have you found it on UK hills?

I did it twenty years ago, on a converted mountain bike tourer with four panniers and full camping gear, with a bottom gear of 24x32 or 19.5". From Sault, via Chalet Reynard and the Tommy Simpson memorial. Also 50mph on the descent, with rather underpowered cantilevered brakes. I was the fittest I've ever been on a bike, after three weeks touring in the Alps.

I don't think, as a bit of topography, it's as hard as the Galibier or the Tourmalet or indeed the Col de Romme, which was an Alpine horror, let alone some of the sustained 1-in-5 and steeper hills in the UK, such as Hardknott Pass or the Devil's Staircase or Rosedale Chimney. It certainly does not have the technical difficulty of those sort of climbs, of trying to keep momentum on the ultra-steep bits while trying not to lift the front wheel or let the back wheel lose traction. It's just a pretty long, pretty steep hill.

For me, the killer on the Ventoux was the wind. I had an old Cateye computer then and there was a moment when I was pushing hard, presumably in bottom gear, on the moonscape and into the headwind, and the computer genuinely read 0km/h. You might get a day without wind, which will be fine, or you might get the full 320km/h wind , in which case you may struggle.

If you can get your bottom gear a bit lower, down to 22" or 24", you should have no problems at all. But doing that on a modern bike is sometimes more difficult than climbing Mont Ventoux!
I too have toured on underwhelming cantis back in the day, and a few times have scared myself by letting things get out of hand and overheating the rims and pads. Fairly certain it was the tourmalet I cooked my pads, melty balls of pad material, just barely got it stopped at one point, and then thought it was a good idea to touch the rims to see how hot they were. Ouch and a good "doh" moment memory.

I like that last line about the challenges of lower gearing. Yes there are cross and gravel doubles nowadays, but there's always going to be a certain significant cost involved to get much lower gearing--but as you say, only this fellow will know what would be appropriate for him and long climbs and good cadences that won't strain ye ol knees.
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by bikepacker »

MrsHJ wrote: 21 May 2022, 11:04pm The Galibier is in my bucket list and I’m glad to see I’m not the only one climbing with full camping gear. I remember the Marie Blanque being tough but the only place I’ve nearly lifted the front wheel off the ground was in crazy steep stuff in Devon.
.
I lived in Paignton for a couple of years and one of the shortest steep climbs I encountered down there was the one up from Babbacombe Beach car park. The first section around the bend is steep.

I class the Galibier and the toughest climb I have done but I did climb it after doing the Télégraphe.

I have climbed Ventoux four times, twice from Bédoin, once from Malaucene and once from Sault. Sault is the easiest route as you start from a higher point. I did it from there with a full camping load.

From Malaucene I climbed with a 78yo friend and did it by stopping every mile to let him have a breather. He coped very well with this method and it saved me worrying about him overstressing himself.

I climbed it once with my wife from Bédoin and I jokingly say she now holds a record for the mountain. She climbed it non-stop with me acting as her domestique passing her food and drink as she needed it. She did it in 3.5 hours which I claim to be the slowest non-stop ascent of Ventoux on a two-wheeled bike. She was 69 yo at the time.
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Brianjeff50
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Brianjeff50 »

djb wrote: 21 May 2022, 11:06pm
speedsixdave wrote: 21 May 2022, 10:38pm Only you will know whether you are confident with 34x32 - about 28". How have you found it on UK hills?

If you can get your bottom gear a bit lower, down to 22" or 24", you should have no problems at all. But doing that on a modern bike is sometimes more difficult than climbing Mont Ventoux!
as you say, only this fellow will know what would be appropriate for him and long climbs and good cadences that won't strain ye ol knees.
I used 34x32 on my LEJOG which had various lumpy bits in Cornwall and Devon plus Shap and the Highland climbs. But none as sustainedly steep as Ventoux.
It’s gearing I’m most concerned about - the old knees do not appreciate out of the saddle stuff though they’re ok with sitting and pushing hard.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by MrsHJ »

I’m not very good at gear numbers but I rarely get out of the saddle or push hard and I’ve done a lot of mountain passes in France, Spain etc - I prefer a granny gear I can just do increased revolutions on. So if that’s the issue I’d certainly advocate gentler gearing. I wouldn’t describe 8% as that much of a sustained climb but ymmv and whatever you need to help you do it is fine. You can probably hire a bike out there with nice gearing if you didn’t want to get a new bike/change your current set up but I’d get if prebooked before travelling.
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 22 May 2022, 10:35am I used 34x32 on my LEJOG which had various lumpy bits in Cornwall and Devon plus Shap and the Highland climbs. But none as sustainedly steep as Ventoux.
It’s gearing I’m most concerned about - the old knees do not appreciate out of the saddle stuff though they’re ok with sitting and pushing hard.
As a gearing nerd, we could get into the specifics of what your low gear is in gear inches (what I'm familiar with), but in my opinion having toured a lot on very hilly\mountainy territory over the decades, you just want to be able to spin seated comfortably, and have a gear or two in spare (downshift) for when it's appreciated.
Yes, I come from a touring background where the actual bike weight with a load, whether 15 or 25 or 45 lbs , makes such a bigger difference.


My view on gearing is that unless one is racing, pushing a 50\11 is hardly ever ever used, and completely outweighed by advantages with either a smaller crank or bigger cassettes--but I'm sure you are limited with what you can change, and would have to balance costs vs how much you can lower gearing.

If your bike was ok for climbs in the past, that's great. But if in the rides you mentioned, you had to be out of the saddle a lot, then for a long sustained climb, you'll want to look into possible changes.

A possible least expensive change is simply a smaller double crankset with similar teeth diff between chainrings as your 50\34
If your fd can be lowered, it should or could be an easy swap.
Still, talking a crankset and maybe probably a BB too, plus installation.....

And heck, if you want to do this trip next week, it doesn't give you a lot of time to do a lot of hill training, so who knows.

We all come on here because we love talking bikes, but I hope you can get a better idea from gradient profiles on ventoux to compare to real life rides you can do, to figure out what's best for you.
Cheers
Tiggertoo
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Tiggertoo »

you just want to be able to spin seated comfortably, and have a gear or two in spare (downshift) for when it's appreciated.
Amen to that.
And another factor, is that if you are spinning and lose momentum on a steep slope - anywhere in Cornwall of Devon it seems - you want to be sure you can easily unclip to put a foot down. Too often I have found myself at zero MPH and unable to get out of my Looks and consequently hit the ground. Not very nice at any time but even worse on a twisting road with a myriad of cars.
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simonineaston
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by simonineaston »

I don't think it's been explicitly stated, but let us recall that Mount Ventoux did for poor Tommy... However the record states that at the time of his demise, he was ill, exhausted, over-heated, dehydrated, and had drugs on board eg alcohol and amphetamine, that were diuretic, as well as preventing him thinking clearly.
So, it's tough - 'specially when it's hot.
Take care.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Brianjeff50
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Brianjeff50 »

djb wrote: 22 May 2022, 2:24pm
As a gearing nerd, we could get into the specifics of what your low gear is in gear inches (what I'm familiar with), but in my opinion having toured a lot on very hilly\mountainy territory over the decades, you just want to be able to spin seated comfortably, and have a gear or two in spare (downshift) for when it's appreciated.
Yes, I come from a touring background where the actual bike weight with a load, whether 15 or 25 or 45 lbs , makes such a bigger difference.


My view on gearing is that unless one is racing, pushing a 50\11 is hardly ever ever used, and completely outweighed by advantages with either a smaller crank or bigger cassettes--but I'm sure you are limited with what you can change, and would have to balance costs vs how much you can lower gearing.

If your bike was ok for climbs in the past, that's great. But if in the rides you mentioned, you had to be out of the saddle a lot, then for a long sustained climb, you'll want to look into possible changes.

A possible least expensive change is simply a smaller double crankset with similar teeth diff between chainrings as your 50\34
If your fd can be lowered, it should or could be an easy swap.
Still, talking a crankset and maybe probably a BB too, plus installation.....

And heck, if you want to do this trip next week, it doesn't give you a lot of time to do a lot of hill training, so who knows.

We all come on here because we love talking bikes, but I hope you can get a better idea from gradient profiles on ventoux to compare to real life rides you can do, to figure out what's best for you.
Cheers
Thanks that’s very helpful. The bike has 50/34 because it came that way - not uncommon I suspect. Increasingly I do find the upper gears too high for an old codger. Indeed once past the macho thing of staying on the big ring I found the 34 gave me a much more usable range of general riding gears.
I’ll investigate the possibilities on gearing. I can grit my teeth and grind up hills but teeth gritting won’t work for three hours! Nor will my knees stand getting out of the saddle for more than moments.
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speedsixdave
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by speedsixdave »

May I make the point about the wind again? It is not named Ventoux for nothing. 8% in and of itself is no small undertaking but the Ventoux has recorded the highest wind speeds in Europe and the Mistral blows regularly in Provence. If you climb it on a windy day proper low gears will be of great benefit. Better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them.

I agree that smaller chainrings with a similar gap is probably the best way to go, and a call to Spa Cycles might be a good starting point.
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djb
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

Re wind.
Some of my hardest touring days were because of wind, head or on\off frustrating side winds\gusts.
Was on a rather heavily loaded bike, but was tough, sore hands from fighting bike, keeping from being blown either into passing trucks or bad shoulder dropoffs.
Not to mention it being demoralizing being in the 22t chainring on the flat!

That touring bike has a 44\32\22 perfect for Latin America (HA! Or for UK 25%!)

Experienced this in parts of Mexico and Nicaragua, and I just remembered, one place was called
La Ventosa
Mont Ventoux
Same latin based "wind" !
djb
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by djb »

Funny how memories get jogged-- thinking about La Ventosa area I rode through in southern Mexico, its a big wind turbine area, for obvious reasons. We met a touring Argentinian couple (I think) there, and they had holed up in a motel for a few days before us, after getting blown off the road, the woman showed me her ripped bar tape and leg scratches. Had to wait for the 100kph + winds to die down to 50 or 60k.

Remember Geraint Thomas getting blown off the road during one of the spring classics some years back? That sort of thing.
Wasn't the "Froomie run" day because of high winds and a shortened course?

So, yes it can happen.
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by pwa »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 21 May 2022, 1:31pm A climb of Ventoux is one of those bucket list items and I’d like to give it a go before I’m too old rather than just old (74). So this year I hope.
Obviously I don’t want to be demoralised by total failure so how tough and how best to prepare - gear ratios etc rather than training. Current bike is a Kinesis 4s with 50/34 and 11-32 gearing.
I’m not a great climber and living in flat Suffolk doesn’t help but I did an end-to-end in 2020 and I’ve done a couple of big climbs in Ireland, albeit at grinding pace.
And what about coming down? If I can’t get up I just stop - coming down it is not quite so simple I fear!
A few years ago I climbed the mountain from Malaucene, as we were staying in a gite out that way after doing a little tour. I rode it on my Thorn tourer (725 tubed Club Tour) with mudguards and front rack taken off for the day. Bottom gear would have been about 26f / 32r. Once started, the climb just went on and on, with little or nothing in the way of relief. I'm not turned on by discomfort these days so I just stopped a few times, maybe ten or so, mainly to avoid it becoming unpleasant. The scenery was staggering and the road was fairly quiet. But most of the way up I was followed by flies that wanted to land on me, which I found distracting. I don't think it was my personal hygiene. My packed lunch at the top was great, especially as I had real food and most around me were pushing gels down their faces :lol: . The return to Malaucene was nearly all freewheeling with stretches of high speed interspersed with heavy braking on the approaches to bends. I use rim brakes so I did have slightly achy forearms by the bottom. But it was fun. All done and dusted by very early afternoon.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by MrsHJ »

On the wind - be flexible in your trip plans and don’t do it on a windy day. Hopefully you’re planning on spending more time than a fly in, fly out as the area is gorgeous. It’s not always windy and we didn’t do it on a windy day.
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Re: Ventoux - how tough?

Post by Audax67 »

I've done it 2½ times, the half because the Dauphiné TT was on and the road was blocked at Chalet Reynard.

From Bédoin: the one I liked least, not for difficulty but for the interminable climb through hot, humid forest full of flies. Once out of the forest it was grand, though I did need the 28/28 gearing. At CR you can have a drink and a sit-down. There used to be and maybe still are two water-pumps at CR: I've heard that the water at the second is better. I was on a 700c road bike with triple carrying 52/42/28 and my largest cog was a 28. I needed it.

From Ville s/Auzon: this was the ½. It was the prettiest, since we took the road through the Gorges de la Nesque and the lavender fields up to Sault (tourist trap) and thence to Chalet Reynard, where we stopped to watch the TT. The Gorges were an easy climb, mostly under 5%.

Got a pic of the TT here: https://pbase.com/johnewing/image/122488471

From Malaucène: this was my favourite because the views of the Alps off to the left are wonderful. You start from a café full of cyclists and gallows humour opposite the start of the road up. I didn't find the initial stages too hard, but I was only 60 and I had 10,000 km under my belt, most of it doing cols in the Vosges. Nonetheless I found the 11% stint on the final approach a bit daunting, especially with the relay tower looming over me. I was on a triple with 50/39/30 pulling a 12/27T cassette.

Good luck attempting it at 74. I'm 75 and riding with a hub motor which I hate needing - it makes me grumpy every time I'm out.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
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