Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Jon in Sweden
Posts: 611
Joined: 22 May 2022, 12:53pm

Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Hi everyone.

I'm recently back to cycling after about 17 years out of the saddle. I'm 37, 2.03m, 110kg and not at all built for hilling climbing. But I really enjoy it!

I used to compete in 10 mile time trials as a kid, and did so once at the Nationals in 1999. I injured my hamstring/plantaris which put a stop to competitions sadly. I still feel the injury a bit now, but it's getting better as I get fitter.

I did a reasonable amount of weight training and forestry work between cycling as a kid (at 6ft 6" and about 70kg) and now (2 inches and 40kg heavier). I'm not fat at all, but could lose a bit of pudge. I would struggle to get under 100kg without stripping a lot of muscle though.

Anyway, we're moving to Sweden in July from Devon. I lose the very steep hills that we have here, but gain immaculate road surfaces and zero traffic.

I'm about 5 weeks back in the saddle, doing 150km a week. I'm doing 20-50km usually, with one ride at 80km so far. I have a couple of bikes - an Orbea Vector Drop gravel bike (on 28mm road tyres) and a lighter Kovert Pro on Campag 3x11 Athena. I average 28-30km/h generally on the less hilly routes (there are no flat routes in Devon) and a touch slower on the hilly routes.

My brother's wife's family live in Verona in northern Italy, and the hills north of the city have inspired me. I'm planning to get there next easter for a week, with the plan 4 days of riding (320km total). Some of the climbs are truly epic and even with the triple chainset would be a challenge for almost anyone. One I routed on Komoot is 1500m over 15km!

Can anyone suggest an approach for training for a older and heftier gentleman such as myself? I have a very strong CV system, but no endurance in my legs yet. I need to build that.

I am still weight training, 3x30 min a week with higher reps.

Anyway, looking forward to getting stuck in on the forum. Cycling was a real childhood love on mine, and can't wait to move to Sweden the uninterrupted space and forest roads :)
briansnail
Posts: 809
Joined: 1 Sep 2019, 3:07pm

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by briansnail »

Hiya There are better riders than me who will give you great advice. So I will confine myself to three sentences. Warm up Warm up with a slow cadence in winter. Also layer and do not get wet. Porridge is the best fuel. Mind you I never take my own advice and have just eaten 3 chocolate bars. Looks like you got great bikes.
ps You only get slightly slower with age if you keep up the fitness - its the slow twitch that goes so don't compete on sprints.
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I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage
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Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by Cugel »

Climbing for a heavier chap is always going to hurt! Well, it isn't easy to get to a feeling of being able to just float over them hills, at least. One can only feel envy at the upward flights of 5 stone sprogs. :-)

It is possible, by the way, to lose fat without losing muscle too. If you consume sufficient protein and reduce the carbs, especially the sugary and starchy variety that are most quickly broken down in the body, whilst keeping the muscles stimulated with a bit of gym and (happily) hill climbing on a bike, you should lose minimal muscle even as you slowly shed a few kilos of bike fuel (aka your fat store). Crash diets seem most prone to burning up muscle as well as fat, so aim to lose your excess fat slowly.

And muscle mass doesn't always indicate a greater leg strength of the kind needed for cycling, which is about long term resilience as much as momentary max push.

It's a risk, perhaps even to your hamstring, but climbing in a gear that you can sustain at 60 rpm rather than the more comfortable 75 - 90 rpm can help build muscular resilience and even more muscle mass. Such climbing is like doing a long series of squats. Look at professional cyclists of pre 1980s and you'll see some very big leg muscle development. You can actually see it because shorts were shorter then. :-) Such musculature often came about because the standard racing gears were a 52/42 chainset and a 13-21 or 13-24 sprocket set. One had to climb even the long steeps in a lowest gear of 42 X 21/24; or get dropped.

One of the training approaches of Graeme Obree was to ride up long steep hills on a fixed gear requiring him to rev at around 50-60 rpm. He claimed it developed not just resilient strong thighs but also a resilient will power. I know what he means having been, many years ago now, in a few Pennine races around Yorkshire & Lancashire with only that 42 X 24 bottom gear. It hurt.

All that being said, once you reach a certain muscular endurance ability i' the thighs (and elsewhere) you can revert to spinning up the long climbs at 90 rpm rather than 60 rpm and expect to find it much easier in terms of preserving some stamina for the next hill. Climbing at a slow cadence can soon wear on your joints and sinews as well as the muscles, which tends to tire you out sooner than if you'd gone up the climb spinning.

If you do train by climbing at 60 rpm, make sure you get plenty of recovery time afterwards to allow the micro-damage done to your bits to fully repair, hopefully to a greater state of ability as they consider that there'll be a next time. But you probably know that already from doing gym stuff.

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In various periods of training after lay-offs, when younger, I noticed that there's often a see-saw effect as you climb back to your previous or required fitness level. For a while, the lungs ache, the heart rate is high and you pant a lot, whilst your legs feel a bit tired but not so bad. Soon your aerobic capacity goes up but then your extra heart-lung function places higher demands on your legs and they ache & tremble a lot more. Then they gain strength and resilience and you're back to panting and the hovering at your max heart rate as the legs suck up more fuel. Etcetera, until the aerobic and the muscle/sinew strengths balance out so that you're fit for owt.

Cugel, butch as a fitter's cat these days.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
rogerzilla
Posts: 2887
Joined: 9 Jun 2008, 8:06pm

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by rogerzilla »

On long hills, start off by riding well within yourself. If it feels like you're not trying hard enough, that's how it should be. You'll probably catch and pass all the people who started too hard, about halfway up. The body is very bad at predicting future oxygen debt.
mattsccm
Posts: 5101
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by mattsccm »

I'll debate something said above. 70-90 rpm isn't automatically the more comfortable cadence. I have knackered knees and find that a nice steady 60 with a higher gear far more comfortable. More to the point it is faster.
I would say just ride as much as you can and drop all the weight you can. Skinny weak ridetrs go up hill faster than fat powerful ones.
Jon in Sweden
Posts: 611
Joined: 22 May 2022, 12:53pm

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and extensive advice. Lots and lots to chew over.

To weigh in on a few of the points, since my hamstring injury, I've always been happier at higher cadence but like to mix it with periods out of the saddle when climbing. It seems to help my hamstring to vary my position.

The issue on the weight is that my appetite is huge with the addition of the cycling 5 weeks ago. I've gained 3kg, but certainly lost fat. My metabolism is very quick and I gain weight very fast if I provide a stimulus.

I just need to drop the calories a bit and try to get back down to 100kg or so. I was that weight last when I was about 21 and there wasn't an ounce of fat on me then.

If it's of interest, the four rides I'm wanting to do in Italy are to the east of Lake Garda. Well, three of them are and going around Lake Garda is the fourth (140km).

Here are the routes I've plotted on Komoot. Please, please check out the Google Street view along the routes. They are absolutely incredible. I had no idea that such breathtaking alpine scenery was so close to my brother's inlaws, otherwise I might have been there years ago!

https://www.plotaroute.com/route/1914125?units=km

I'd start this route at the southern most point, as I think 20km of flat valley road is a good warm up for the 23km climb. Check out the street view on the climb at the 7km point and then again 23km in as it flattens out, clinging to the hillside.

https://www.plotaroute.com/route/1914125?units=km

Again, this wants to be started at the southern most point for the warmup on the valley road. This climb is possibly beyond me averaging 10% for 15km.

https://www.plotaroute.com/route/1914125?units=km

This entire route is stunning. Less brutal climbing, but more of it.
peetee
Posts: 4292
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by peetee »

I was a bit of a hill climber in my twenties, a hopeless time trialist for a while, cycle commuted for many years and as my late forties approached I had a layoff from cycling all together for about 8 years.
Three things happened; my weight increased by 25%, my strength dropped and my aerobic capacity reduced. Of the three it’s the anaerobic capacity that has been the hardest to recover in the two and a half years I have been back on the bike.
Hill climbing pushes you to extremes. In terms of competition hills, you will be unlikely to be using the lowest possible gear that can be or is fitted to your bike so ultimate leg strength is far less important than aerobic and anaerobic capacity.
Mental preparation is also important. You already believe you are at a disadvantage so that in itself is slowing you down. Getting up a hill in the shortest time is a delicate balance of ability, technique and belief. The physical ability is wasted if you can’t apply it in a measured amount for the duration of the climb, and the climb is going to get the better of you for days before the event if you think negatively.
As for preparation, just get out there and ride. Forget long rides, just do an adequate warm-up of twenty minutes or so, find a challenging hill - short and steep is best for anaerobic training - and ride up it half a dozen times. Don’t forget to warm down too. I’ve spoilt many a next-days-ride by not doing that.
Have fun training and when you do a competition, judge your effort spot-on so you use every ounce of capability. It’s going to hurt but it’s also going to feel great.
Last edited by peetee on 23 May 2022, 4:58pm, edited 2 times in total.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
borisface
Posts: 360
Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 3:48pm

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by borisface »

Top tip! Find someone heavier than you to ride with!

There are some good free training plans on the British Cycling website, you probably won't go far wrong by following one of those.
ANTONISH
Posts: 2967
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Hello! Introduction and advice regarding building hill climbing ability?

Post by ANTONISH »

rogerzilla wrote: 22 May 2022, 5:06pm On long hills, start off by riding well within yourself. If it feels like you're not trying hard enough, that's how it should be. You'll probably catch and pass all the people who started too hard, about halfway up. The body is very bad at predicting future oxygen debt.
Good advice.
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