Cycling UK Forum

Hi all.

I'm back to cycling fairly recently after almost 20 years away (I'm 37).

I'm pretty good technically with regards to calibration on bikes. I've not done bearing replacements or bottom brackets myself, but I used to switch front and rear mechs, set up etc. So not a total idiot.

In the past twenty years, the bike world has gone disc brake mad. Words cannot express how much I hate the bloody things. I have two road bikes now - an Orbea Vector Drop with hydraulic discs and a Kovert Pro with Chorus dual callipers. Both bikes work perfectly, but the braking performance is far superior on the callipers.

I've also been battling with my Cannondale F5 for a good while. It originally had Juicy hydraulic discs, that I was advised by the bike mechanic I bought the Orbea from were highly troublesome and needed to be replaced. They'd always performed badly, and had very uneven disc wear, pistons sticking and also rubbed a lot. So for the sake of simplicity, I had the local bike shop switch them out for cable discs. These now seem to have sod all power and the lever is sticking on. So it'll be going back to the bike shop - I've had it on the stand for over an hour, having started from scratch and they just won't work.

Are there any options for mountain bikes now without discs? I can set up v-brakes, cantilever or dual callipers perfectly in minutes. Discs seem to rely on such tight calibration that if they aren't 100%, they might as well not work. I absolutely hate them.

In an ideal world, I'd find a drop bar mountain bike/gravel bike cross with nice chunky 38mm tyres and v-brakes or something. They just don't seem to exist though.

The lever sticking on - You need to isolate where that's happening, the lever, cable or caliper.
Once that's sorted, the pad spacing needs setting properly. Though not essential, this tool makes that simple
http://www.birzman.com/products_2.php?u ... =4&Key=133

Once those things are done, if you braking isn't as good as V brakes there's an issue with pads or rotor. Pads could be contamination or not bedded in, plenty of instruction for the latter all over the web. Rotors likewise could be contaminated.
You don't say what cable discs they are? Some are easier to adjust and maintain, but they should all work well enough. Sorry you've had bad luck, particularly as the shop hasn't sorted it, but changing brakes or bike because of it would be a mistake IMO.

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑24 May 2022, 11:38am So for the sake of simplicity, I had the local bike shop switch them out for cable discs. These now seem to have sod all power and the lever is sticking on. So it'll be going back to the bike shop - I've had it on the stand for over an hour, having started from scratch and they just won't work.

There's your problem right there. Cable discs.
Cables discs have all the inherent problems of cables - wear, friction, dirt ingress - and most of the problems on them are caused by cabling, either poor quality cables or a bad cable run. PH's post above has some decent set-up tips.

Otherwise, put a set of hydraulics on it, they're fit and forget. Vastly superior in every possible way to rim brakes and cable discs. Bleed once a year, change the pads as and when they need it, otherwise leave well alone. They self adjust, the lever pull is always the same, there's tons of well-modulated power on offer...

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑24 May 2022, 11:38am In an ideal world, I'd find a drop bar mountain bike/gravel bike cross with nice chunky 38mm tyres and v-brakes or something. They just don't seem to exist though.

You can occasionally find such things on ebay. Usually being sold by people who've bought disc-braked bikes and realised just how much better they are...

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑24 May 2022, 11:38am Are there any options for mountain bikes now without discs? I can set up v-brakes, cantilever or dual callipers perfectly in minutes. Discs seem to rely on such tight calibration that if they aren't 100%, they might as well not work. I absolutely hate them.

In an ideal world, I'd find a drop bar mountain bike/gravel bike cross with nice chunky 38mm tyres and v-brakes or something. They just don't seem to exist though.

Until quite recently CX race bikes were still being made with cantilever brakes (don't think they ever used V-brakes). Although these are delivered+raced with 33mm tyres, they will have clearance for muuuuch wider. (at least mine does!)

In the UK, I regularly see these for sale by racers (who are upgrading to newer bikes), generally looking pretty new! They have drop bars, and usually modern integrated gear/brake shifters.

Loosen the two largish Allen fixings on the brake pads housing so there is play.Engage the brake then tighten the Allen fixings back up and then release the brake. This centrally lines up the brake pads with the disc which eliminates any rub.

I love my mechanical disks. Always stop me fine, even touring loaded with full camping gear. No issues and I'd buy the same again if I was purchasing again (in fact I did when I got my recumbent).

Ian

Cyclo2022 wrote: ↑24 May 2022, 2:21pm Loosen the two largish Allen fixings on the brake pads housing so there is play.Engage the brake then tighten the Allen fixings back up and then release the brake. This centrally lines up the brake pads with the disc which eliminates any rub.

Correct adjustment, including Cyclo's advice, is the key. I suffered brake chatter and poor braking with my TRP Spyres when the bike was new, the bike shop blamed everything but their own setup (they built it, and hadn't even routed the cable properly over the attachment point!)

So I put new pads in, and followed the advice on the TRP videos here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPTK0yEUI5s and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T2RLgQoyvs which may also apply to your setup(s). With the spyres I found that the best braking is with the arms at right-angles to the cable when the brake is fully on (I think one of the videos says this). Something to do with mechanical advantage I think. Never had a problem since except for a bit of scraping noise sometimes, a quieter version of the noise I used to get when my rim brakes were wet and gritty! Been using them for almost 7 years now.

I also hate disc brakes, and I've had four different types. I don't have them now.

I don't hate disc brakes but I prefer rim brakes on the whole. I don't agree with the above comment that hydraulic disc brakes are fit and forget, although when working they are good. There's no good reason why you shouldn't be able to get your cable disc brakes to work well I have found them to be more reliable than hydraulics. They need good cables (non compressable outers), good routing and properly set up and adjusted. Good rim brakes work well.

22 years and well over 50k miles on nothing but cable discs. Am I doing something wrong?

My experience with hydraulic disks is that they are either (a) entirely trouble free and work very well or (b) a nightmare from beginning to end, sticking, rubbing, with endless attempts at adjustment improving nothing. My current mountain bike came with hydraulic brakes, but the front is now cable as the original was in category (b). That said the rear one is (so far, touch wood) in category (a).
I understand how the cable versions work and can adjust. In spite of watching countless videos, I remain cack-handed when it come to hydraulic and decided the happiest option was to just give up.

Having had both, I found the cable disc calipers needed re-centering every time I removed and refitted a wheel, and the cable occasionally needed adjusting to remove slack before either the brake lever hit the handlebar or the lever on the caliper hit the caliper body, either scenario resulting in loss of braking. Plus the usual periodic cleaning/lubrication of the cable inner.

My hydraulic brakes have needed very little apart from an occasional caliper re-centering (but less often than the cable discs) and occasionally fitting new pads / brushing brake dust out of the calipers.

On balance I'd go for (i.e. am using) hydraulics.

I hate cable disc brakes also, especially on quick release rims!! I took one of my bikes to a bike shop because when you lock the front brake and rock the bike back and forth, the front wheel visibly twists in the hub, like when the headset is really loose, but in my case, the headset wasn't loose!

The mechanic looked at it ... and said "That's normal".

I can now see why they don't sell disc brakes with quick release hubs anymore....I feel lucky that the front wheel has never popped out while braking! And that bike is no longer in regular use!

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

I know I am a luddite. Discs are just outside of my comfort zone to a degree.

I've put the Cannondale F5 back into the bike shop as the owner said a customer was trying to buy it when it was in. Hopefully he does.

This morning I picked this Cannondale Caad x gravel bike up and I'm very happy. Immediately a thousand times more comfortable for me on drops. Tiagra/105 bits, Spyres TRP cable discs, which a mechanic acquaintance told me are just about the best cable brakes you can get. Only fault I could find is that there is a tiny bit of play in the hubs. I'll have that looked at. Otherwise, for £400, I'm extremely happy.

Hi,
In an ideal world hydraulics would be the first choice.

But bicycles have designs which are specific to just bicycles..................hydraulic callipers are not a particular item which falls into this bracket........BUT bicycle items all have to be lightweight!

Otherwise no one would buy them, and no firm will market an item which makes further sales unlikely.......because the item is ultra reliable.

Bicycle brakes which require little or no maintenance are probably drum brakes.
The rest require more work / care.

I use cheap end but effective cable disc brakes which I adjust/maintain every ride which is just 36 miles.
I could carry a set of spares which would weigh les than a bottle of water, and ride round the world with confidence If I use cable operated brakes.

That could not be said for hydraulics.

The other day I was listening to a guy who had fitted top end hydraulic brakes that were noisey and was making excuses and went on to mention a service by returning brakes to an agent for £50.....................a wheel.................

How you gonna manage servicing your brakes when the fluid overheats and its raining and muddy with all that grit and water?

Pays your money and takes your choice.

Brakes have to be just so as to work well and be reliable.
Pad wear will almost always be uneven on opposed pads per set, and on the pad its self.
The same can be said of good car and motorcycle brakes.

If you cant get on with disc brakes of any description then you will have to use a rim brake I recommend "V" with correct levers..........you live with slight delay in the wet, performance is on par with cable discs with organic pads.

Not all pads material is the same, even if you look at just sintered pads, not all discs are the same, material varies and so does reliability.
I recently swapped out my front disc as it was giving rusty dust!
Not uncommon with sintered metal pads of yesteryear going back some forty years when I owned motorcycles.
But my front disc was chewing up the pads so I fitted another and all is fine now.

Discs brakes are noisy in operation but most can be set up not to squeak.
Discs are mostly stainless steel but if you harden stainless it rusts and is magnetic.

T.B.H. Bicycle brake adjustment just got more difficult and beyond most diy mechanics.
One day you can spend two minutes adjusting the brakes.....another it runs to a hour or more.

Noisy brakes....................they just need to bed in mate......................but they dont work well either.............they will when they bed in..........

Only drum brakes need to bed in to get full performance.
Bicycle discs pads just need to run down the first hill if set correctly.