attitude to guns

[thirdcrank]

If we all carried a loaded gun, every single one of us, nobody would get shot.

Except for accidents, suicides and the cases where the malicious shooter got the first shot in. And malicious shooters where the "goodie" got the first shot in.
=======================================================
PS Forgot cases where the innocent actions of the casualty were misunderstood and led to their being shot, which might be more likely if everybody knew for certain - rather than suspected - that everybody else was armed

[Cugel]

If politically things go really wrong there's a citizen militia with the capability to restore democracy.

I wonder how this citizens' militia would fare against the U.S. Army?

As I said it's a old idea that's due a rethink. However most armies were drawn from local populace so when first added that amendment would have pitted ordinary man against ordinary man plus a smaller standing, professional army I guess. Certainly our family had an old us army musket out there until my great gran died when it went to a cousin of my mums. My grandad, American, used to tell me his mum had it standing against the wall in the veranda next to the front door. No doubt loaded too but being shot and powder I doubt it was much good in a home invasion. Sounded like a big blunderbus of a gun too. Civil war issued apparently or possibly earlier, certainly issued.

Long ago, I was persuaded by this particular "Letter from America", a BBC regular broadcast on USA matters by Alistair Cooke.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl ... tober-1993

His argument is that the US constitution allowed citizens to be armed to form a militia in conditions in which the US state had little or nothing in the way of a standing army or other military force. Those conditions are long over.

It seems the constitution was not written to give a carte-blanche right to bear arms, but to give a duty to have them ready as part of any future need for the state to demand what is now called conscription, in the event of a threat from hostile forces to it's continuance.

Of course, the loons that believe the Trump Big Lie have convinced themselves that the properly elected government is the enemy of the state. Amongst other questions, this does beg the question: if the elected government is deemed illegitimate, what exactly is the state, then?

Cugel

[Nearholmer]

the elected government is deemed illegitimate, what exactly is the state, then?

Whatever the people with most guns say it is.

Which is one, among many, reasons that gun control is a good idea.

[Cugel]

If we all carried a loaded gun, every single one of us, nobody would get shot.

Ha ha - very droll. A sort of mini MAD policy. .....

Except that a gun is not like a nuclear weapon. The cowsers of the USA all assume that they will be quicker on the draw than their supposed enemies, so no mutual destruction, only "macho-me applying and succeeding at a stand-your-ground duel".

I often think that if Blighty had gun laws like that of the USA, the carnage rate would be at least twice theirs by now! But perhaps you haven't noticed the mad Blighters roaming about the land (actual and virtual) just lately? I thought you were on that Facepuke?

Cugel

[PedallingSquares]

[Ben@Forest]

If we all carried a loaded gun, every single one of us, nobody would get shot.

Ha ha - very droll. A sort of mini MAD policy. .....

Except that a gun is not like a nuclear weapon. The cowsers of the USA all assume that they will be quicker on the draw than their supposed enemies, so no mutual destruction, only "macho-me applying and succeeding at a stand-your-ground duel".

And people don't really know what they'd do in such a situation anyway. At the Munich Olympics in 1972 part of the reason the police rescue of the Israeli athletes failed was an officer trained to use firearms, but not specially trained in counter-terrorism, could not bring himself to shoot at a critical moment. If a police officer can hesitate at such moment how can anyone depend upon untrained civilians?

[pwa]

If we all carried a loaded gun, every single one of us, nobody would get shot.

That is basically what some gun extremists say, isn't it. Every community, anywhere in the world, will have individuals with mental health issues, and some of those individuals will suffer an emotional crisis that makes them behave in a way they wouldn't normally do when they are feeling okay. In communities where guns are everywhere that situation carries an extra risk. That is the problem. If everyone is armed, the mentally unstable are armed too.

[Mick F]

My post was tongue in cheek.
it's the Texas philosophy though.

[tatanab]

I lived in the USA for a few years, in a state with some permits for concealed weapons etc. Two examples of what we think of madness from the otherwise sane professional people I worked with -

1. Walking a quiet urban beach with a dog, typically twice a year this person feels threatened by something and has his hand on his concealed gun.
2 At work the receptionist was being hassled by a vagrant and called for help. Did people rush to her? No. They rushed out to their cars to get their concealed guns. By the time they got to reception the vagrant had long gone.

Crazy!

[Stradageek]

Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' is one of the most measured and insightful analyses of the root causes.

Put simply, the most paranoid people on the planet all live in the USA, as does the largest arms industry.

[Cugel]

I lived in the USA for a few years, in a state with some permits for concealed weapons etc. Two examples of what we think of madness from the otherwise sane professional people I worked with -

1. Walking a quiet urban beach with a dog, typically twice a year this person feels threatened by something and has his hand on his concealed gun.
2 At work the receptionist was being hassled by a vagrant and called for help. Did people rush to her? No. They rushed out to their cars to get their concealed guns. By the time they got to reception the vagrant had long gone.

Crazy!

Good examples of how a national zeitgeist can radically affect the behaviour of millions. I blame that Hollywood, whose every filum must have several dangerous car chases and lots of gunplay. Anti-heroes have become heroes. Mad gangsters, rogue cops and the just plain violent are regarded as the epitome of uncompromising "individualism".

I had a similar experience to yours when visiting the ex-wife's sister in Nevada. Her husband, along with nearly everyone else in that benighted place, was a gun nut, with several weapons draped about his person and his geet big truck-thing. On a number of occasions when annoyed by other drivers, the look from a passer-by or some other stance or gesture he disliked, he would immediately resort to verbal "snarling gun-violence" threats.

Alarming, that. Those in his sights were highly likely to be also armed and similarly belligerent! One did not wish to be in their vicinity!! No!!!

**************
It seems to be not so much the high gun ownership levels across the USA but the high amount of media stuff that recommends problems of all kinds be resolved by seeing who is quickest on the draw, all stoked by the cultural notion of government & law as a pesky nuisance because "a man's gotta do what a man' gotta do". Even law-fans believe the best sort of justice comes out of the barrel of a gun.

Mind, traces of this attitude are all too evident in many other English-speaking nations. One feels that the export of admittedly highly popular US kultur should be more stringently controlled. Yes.

Cugel, probably just a softlad.

[reohn2]

........Put simply, the most paranoid people on the planet all live in the USA, as does the largest arms industry.

I began writing a post yesterday with that opinion on the issue,but scrubbed as I don't have any personal experience of the USA.
But that said,from what I see in the media and documentaries I've watched that's the impression I get.

Their motto seems to be "in Gun we trust"

[reohn2]

........ I blame that Hollywood, whose every filum must have several dangerous car chases and lots of gunplay. Anti-heroes have become heroes. Mad gangsters, rogue cops and the just plain violent are regarded as the epitome of uncompromising "individualism".......

A case of monkey see monkey do?

The UK became infected with it some time ago too,and for those who can't get a gun,a knife serves the same purpose,we now have young teenagers stabbing young teenagers,some even younger still.

[al_yrpal]

I have seven good friends scattered across the US, only one, a woman living in Kansas City owned a gun. When she visited us she was nonplussed that my wife didn't own a gun. Some neighbourhoods seem to have more gun ownership than others and if you live in a bear neighbourhood a gun might be seen as necessary.

Al

[Stradageek]

From a Guardian article:

Americans bought nearly 20m guns in 2021, the firearms industry’s second-best year on record. Gun deaths were also up, with 45,000 Americans killed by firearms last year, according to the Gun Violence Archive. More than 1,500 were children or teenagers. Among the dead were the victims of 692 mass shootings, defined as resulting in four or more people killed or wounded, in the US in 2021.

The worst of the massacres drive up gun sales. Daniel Defense reported a surge in demand for its semi-automatics after the Sandy Hook murders.

Busse said that the gunmakers were well aware of the cost of their business in lives but there was money to be made.

“I think they realise that bad things had very positive consequences for gun sales, and so they were OK with looking away from the bad things,” he said. “When the American capitalist publicly traded system gets involved in this, and you have those sorts of immense quarterly pressures, the forces of big money encourage really irresponsible actions.”