attitude to guns

[thirdcrank]

I read the FBI report with interest but although there's quite a lot to go at, it doesn't seem to draw many conclusions. Assuming the underlying info is dependable, then a lot of these incidents ended in the suicide of the suspect. That suggests to me that mental illness in it's broadest sense may have been a factor. Another point seems to be the apparent random nature of the incidents.

While events of this type naturally attract most attention, it may be that there's an element of inevitability in that in the absence of guns, other means might have been chosen. I'm not saying it's so, because I don't know, just that it seems likely to me.

IMO what is amenable to improvement is what I'd term housekeeping. The more firearms there are in circulation, the greater the likelihood of accidents, misunderstandings etc. Put another way, fewer guns = fewer deaths from shootings.

[ossie]

I entered a debate once on a US motoring forum. It followed the killing of George Floyd. There was an incident where a guy had stole a cops gun and run off with it. He was cornered, shot and killed without anyone else coming to harm.

I attempted to tell them how the UK police would deal with such a situation...ie an armed individual who had assaulted an officer and in the process stolen his firearm.

As far as they were concerned that guy had to be 'taken out big time' and a few of the things that cropped up was that he could 'could kill innocent people', 'hold up a mall'....'take and kill multiple hostages'......always the complete worse case scenario.

They've gone down a cul de sac in one respect that they'll never get out of . That said having visited the US on several occasions the only serious looking firearms I ever saw were in the hands of police at UK airports. ...oh yeah and for sale at Walmart in the US 20 yards from the veg section

One thing for sure....don't even try to intervene in their arguments and soul searching, just be happy for what we have.

[Vorpal]

I read the FBI report with interest but although there's quite a lot to go at, it doesn't seem to draw many conclusions. Assuming the underlying info is dependable, then a lot of these incidents ended in the suicide of the suspect. That suggests to me that mental illness in it's broadest sense may have been a factor. Another point seems to be the apparent random nature of the incidents.

It was illegal in the USA at that time for the federal government or contractors to fund research into gun violence or promote gun control. So FBI needed to be very careful not to draw any conclusions.

It was only 2019 that the government reached an agreement to allow government funding of gun violence research. They still cannot 'promote gun control', which means that they will need to avoid some of the obvious conclusions.

[thirdcrank]

( ... )
It was illegal in the USA at that time for the federal government or contractors to fund research into gun violence or promote gun control. So FBI needed to be very careful not to draw any conclusions.

It was only 2019 that the government reached an agreement to allow government funding of gun violence research. They still cannot 'promote gun control', which means that they will need to avoid some of the obvious conclusions.

OK (I lack the wit to be able to quote directly from your link)

I did work out from the first two paragraphs of the introduction that the FBI was being cautious about conclusions but I wrongly assumed from the second paragraph that they would come up with some basic response guidelines.

[thirdcrank]

I forget the exact incident, but a couple of years ago, where the gunman was shot dead at the end by a member of the public. The wild west attitude of joy from some of the authorities that this guy had got what was coming to him was almost as shocking as the incident.

Although the amount of guns is a massive part of the probem, the scale of acceptance for discharging them in a public place seems to be the big difference between the USA and the other gun owning countries to me.

This happens occasionally, and often makes international news because the gun lobby hail it as an example of why everyone should have the right to carry guns. It's also not terribly unusual that the hero is shot by police because they cannot tell the difference between a malicious active shooter and a someone trying to stop them.

Despite the prevalence of guns in the USA, gun violence is much more likely to be stopped by unarmed members of the public than armed. But they don't talk about that.

According to an FBI report:

There were 160 active shooter/mass shooting incidents between 2000 and 2013;
Five of the mass shooting incidents were ended by armed civilians who subdued the shooter
21 of the incidents ended with unarmed citizens subduing the shooter
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... 1.pdf/view

This research has compiled a list of incidents which were stopped by an armed member of the public:
https://crimeresearch.org/2022/05/uber- ... -shooting/

In this country the "unarmed citizens" are often also know as "police." There's a case reported here where nobody was injured so it doesn't count as a mass-shooting

Manchester PCs who chased gunman nominated for bravery award

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-61711298

[PedallingSquares]

This is from another forum but was sent to a member from his brother who lives in Texas.This isn't is brother btw.It just goes to show just how ridiculous the US laws are
https://thevoiceofpelham.ca/2022/06/03/ ... innocents/



Note under the photo it states 80% of their collection.There's another photo on their social media showing more of their collection lined up on the roof of the house



They're obviously believers in a Zombie apocalypse

[reohn2]

Bizarre to say the least!

[mattheus]

n+1

[simonineaston]

I'd love to see the family's matching - and presumably equally impressive - collection of secure storage facilities...

[PedallingSquares]

Probably along the lines of this young lady's facility:-

[thirdcrank]

I'd love to see the family's matching - and presumably equally impressive - collection of secure storage facilities...

Perhaps they don't feel they need them as they have the firepower to deal with any intruders.

[mattheus]

Probably along the lines of this young lady's facility:-

Thanks: I needed a new background image for Teams meeting.

[PedallingSquares]

Apparently, collections such as these are quite common.How the hell do you justify needing that many firearms?!
Protection?From what an Army?
Surely the US Government should make the rules clearer or limit ownership to one firearm per stipulated use?
I could see that being 4 or 5 Firearms per certificate,not 100+.

[francovendee]

Another good reason so be glad I don't live in the USA.
There's many reasons already on the list!

[thirdcrank]

Re the collection and display, I used to have an uncle - more accurately my mother's uncle - whose attic was lined with showcases full of sets of toy soldiers with their boxes, Dinky toys ditto, and a permanent model railway layout with all sorts of goodies which used to leave me agog. The point was they were not for playing with but hoarded - except for the trains which I was allowed to watch running but not touch.

Not dangerous like a display of firearms, of course, although I was once so engrossed that I fell down the attic steps which did me no good. Nobody can use all those guns or even a small part of the collection so it's just hoarding.