Jeremy Vine video of lorry close passing a police cyclist

[DaveReading]

The one thing I don't understand in all this is how come a police officer - of all people - can be unaware that by pedalling along the extreme edge of the lane he is making it impossible for almost any vehicle - not just an HGV - to proceed past him in the adjacent lane while leaving a 1.5 m safe clearance.

[Nearholmer]

If there is a lesson in this, it is that much of the infrastructure in the UK, especially in cities, is entirely unsuitable for such a wide variety of vehicles to share.

Very true.

Would it be fair to say that the emerging consensus is “six of one, half dozen of the other”?

[Tangled Metal]

There's a Google streetview image looking back at the direction the cyclists came from with a vauxhall vivaro van, I have one and it's 2204mm wide including mirrors, 1905 approx without mirrors. In the streetview image there's plenty of space either side of the van in the same lane as the cyclists. It's not a cycle lane BTW, it's probably a 2.5m wide lane. Box vans are I think about 2.3m wide or so which does seem to match the space either side of the waitrose truck in the video for a 2.5m wide lane.

So the Waitrose truck has at most 0.1m space left in lane. 1.5m overtaking space leaves 1,1m for two cyclists and sufficient gap between them and between the kerb.

My question is whether single file in primary was a better riding position considering there were two lanes? Also, with two abreast how can anyone overtake in the outer lane without cutting into the 1.5m or 1.0m passing n space? Certainly without leaving their lane to go into the lane for vehicles coming the other way to make a bona fide overtaking manoeuvre.

IMHO truck driver was in the wrong but the cyclists could have done things better.

[awavey]

for me this isnt about the 1.5 metres, the other vehicles including a builders merchant truck all passed within that 1.5metres, and the police who were present had no problem with them at all, neither should they as they werent a problem given the circumstances of the road size.

The Waitrose truck is different because it is being driven right up against the line separating the lanes, and it looks to me as if it even comes closer to the cyclists, especially those further back in the group, in the course of the pass, difficult to tell because we dont get the full picture of whats happening on the road, but how much of those cyclists can the driver even see in their mirrors than at that point ? because the cyclists are fully reliant on the driver knowing exactly where they are once they are out of his line of sight, what if the driver suddenly decides to take the leftside lane because thats what the satnav says do next past that left turn, they havent disappeared.

So for me yes it warrants the police having a word with the driver at the very least, and remind them to give cyclists more space, be more aware of the size of the vehicle they are driving, be more mindful of their surroundings, and dont treat that painted line as simply being the thing that lets you get as close as you can to people in an adjacent lane.

What the driver should have done is really just hold back, the roads 20mph limit anyway, its London, the traffic looks pretty congested as youd expect, you dont really gain anything getting to the end of the next queue quicker if you are constantly pushing forward like that, and then hes got constant eyes on them.

the more interesting thing is if I as a private citizen, reported that kind of pass, would the police have done anything with it at all ? because I do remember being close passed by a Waitrose truck, though cant recall the exact setup, but it stuck in my head as even the darn posh supermarket lorries are out to get me, but I didnt submit it because I knew the local cops wouldnt be interested, the nearest one Ive submitted thats similar to the Vine video where I was in a cycle lane and car close passed me with its wheels nearly touching the line of paint, they actually NFA'd

[slowster]

I say again, watch the video (specifically the first 52 seconds) and see what the sergeant does. Then compare that with the officer who experienced the close pass.

[LancsGirl]

Towards the end of the video the poor "wronged" police officer manages to wander into the next lane. Presumably because he was so keen on getting his 10 seconds of fame by chatting to the man-off-the-telly he was too busy to pay attention to where his actual wheels were. Looks like an open and shut case of cycling without due care and attention.

[Pebble]

I say again, watch the video (specifically the first 52 seconds) and see what the sergeant does. Then compare that with the officer who experienced the close pass.

Indeed the first officer is being aware of what is about to pass by looking over his shoulder.

However also take note of the first wagon (the 6 legger with hiab) he is also aware of the cyclists and giving them that extra bit of room. The waitrose wagon is saying I'm in my lane and sod anyone who ventures near it. I would remove his vocational licence, with that attitude towards other road users he should not be in charge of a HGV.

Yes the cyclist should have been more aware and moved over, but the onus is on the larger vehicle to be more careful towards incompetent road users.

Accidents/collisions are often the result of two bits of poor road craft coming together, here is a classic case where a good cyclist would have not been in that position and a good driver would not have passed that close to a cyclist. With the new hierarchy for road safety, the wagon driver should be getting a min of 3 points and some more training

[Tangled Metal]

Aiui tie wobbly police office is an inspector and the guy who was heavily involved in the road safety awareness scheme that this ride was part of. He's not getting 10 seconds of fame by talking to the guy from the beeb but promoting the scheme using a prominent cyclist's followers on social media. You're more likely to see the head of anything focusing on the most significant guest. Which is why that police officer was there riding beat JV I guess.

[slowster]

This is the sergeant who is riding alongside Jeremy Vine at the beginning of the video. During the first 16 seconds when he is in shot, he makes not one, but four shoulder checks:

1 second -

5 seconds -

8 seconds -

12 seconds -

He is looking at the builder's lorry and judging whether there is enough space for him to stay next to Vine when the lorry comes alongside. The sergeant makes several checks to ensure that the lorry is staying well over to the right of its lane and that the gap is staying large enough.

The view now pans to the rear, and you can see Jeremy Vine is in the middle of the lane, and the sergeant is probably closer to the edge of the lane than the rest of the riders.

Incidentally, it's pure speculation but I wonder if the sergeant was Jeremy Vine's unofficial minder (or one of them) for that ride. Jeremy Vine has posted videos online of a number of incidents involving him and other road users, which inevitably attract media attention due to his high profile. If the Met Cycle Safety Team did designate one or more riders to shepherd Jeremy Vine, that showed good planning and foresight.

[slowster]

Now the police cyclist who experienced the close pass. At no time does he look right over his shoulder to check the traffic coming up from behind. However, if you look closely at the video you will see that he does look to his left three times (difficult to see in the stills, but just visible in the video):

21 seconds -

27 seconds -

28 seconds -

The young woman on his inside also looks at him a number of times, and they are obviously chatting. It is perfectly possible to hold a conversation AND maintain good awareness of what is happening around you on the road, but that it is not what happened here. The police cyclist paid no atttention to the traffic in the next lane, despite being a member of the Met Cycle Safety Team and despite riding *this close* to the next lane:

[slowster]

After the Waitrose lorry has passed we see the sergeant again. He had evidently seen the Waitrose lorry coming up, and accelerated to get well ahead of Jeremy Vine and single up.

That was good, competent, safe cycling. Riding safely in a group on lightly trafficked roads and country lanes takes some skill, effort and practice. Riding solo safely on heavily trafficked urban roads similarly requires skill, effort and practice. Riding safely in a group on heavily trafficked urban roads for long periods during the course of a full day's working shift while policing London's streets, is much more impressive.

It is a great pity that Jeremy Vine posted the video and tweeted as he did. If, instead of going public, he had simply passed the video over to the Met cycling officers, they would probably have done nothing about the Waitrose lorry driving, but would have had a quiet word with the police cyclist on how to manage himself in such situations and given him more training in roadcraft. By publicising this, Jeremy Vine has embarassed that officer, and also drawn others, such as DCS Andy Cox, into defending him when they should not.

A lot of media attention and people's focus has been concentrated on an incident which reflects poorly on all involved, with Jeremy Vine, DCS Andy Cox and others seeking to shut down any online criticism or critique of the police cyclist as 'victim blaming'. That is counter-productive to improving road safety. We all of us need to be able to acknowledge when we make a mistake, including police officers. Possibly even more importantly we need to be able to recognise and highlight good cycling (and driving), such as that demonstrated by the sergeant, so that we all know what to try to emulate. Instead, none of the online discussion has identified and highlighted the sergeant's riding - the discussion is all negative and arguing about who to blame

It is not enough simply to say the Waitrose lorry driver committed an offence. We have to recognise and acknowledge that the police cyclist was riding without the care and attention that was appropriate having regard to his position on the edge of the lane, and did not show sufficient consideration for other persons using the road.

Finally, just telling people not to drive or ride badly is not enough. Good driving and riding are about much more than simply not making mistakes. They are about getting people to recognise and understand the pro-active behaviours that contribute to good driving and riding - that in turn will encourage them to try to do the same things themselves when driving or riding.

[Psamathe]

My personal interpretation : Looks to me like the officer concerned is far further out than necessary even for cycling 2 abreast i.e. he could cycle 2 abreast and still give the truck more room. In fact outside edge of officer is closer to the white line than inside edge of lorry.

Of all the close passes that happen I don't regard this as an "Oh my god" one. Non-cycling public would be better presented with some of the horrendous youtube examples where they can be really shocked - but Jeremy Vine would not get the same publicity from that. Tanker/car transporter close passes at speed where loads of space for cyclist to be given loads of room. I don't think Vine's example will register with non-cycling viewers and just be taken as another moaning cyclist expecting everything and more.

Our roads only work because road users cooperate. Dig your heels-in and needlessly "demand your rights" and our transport system will completely clog-up (for cyclists as well).

Ian

[Cowsham]

Agreed this looks bad for cyclists in general so anytime we have occasion to protest about genuine bad driving all the driver has to do is cite this incident.

I couldn't see the video as I'm not a twit but from those pictures it's evident the cyclist is in the wrong.

I wouldn't cycle out near the center white line and then shout at every oncoming driver who passes me on the other side of the center line.

[Jdsk]

I couldn't see the video as I'm not a twit...

There's no need to have a Twitter account to watch it. It plays in a web browser.

Jonathan

[Tangled Metal]

So it comes down to the fact that the police officer was not q this cyclist so the close pass is OK? Just so I know the truth of what you're saying. I've not heard you say that the waitrose driver is wrong to and technically did close pass a road user that was more vulnerable. Out I missed it.

If you could answer the question over whether the driver was right to pass the cyclists as they were riding?

The video was posted as a example of a close pass experienced by this group event. On this one point is it close pass and as such isn't a good manoeuvre by the driver at best and at worst a motoring offence?